Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,690
Republika Srpska
Yes, but the half-implied half-said assumption of Umber's speech is that NOW, they would only bow down to a "Southron" ruler/claimant if they have a dragon (that is to say, an "unbeatable weapon"), which is the case at present.
I don't see it. Greatjon Umber merely gave a justification for Northern independence: "Well, we actually swore fealty to the Targaryens and they are gone", while conveniently forgetting to mention that they also swore an oath to Robert Baratheon and his family. Thing is, we were actually given hints that weirwood arrows can harm the dragons. King Torrhen's bastard brother Brandon Snow attempted to persuade the king to allow him to try to kill Aegon's dragons. And it should be noted that not everyone in the North accepted Targaryen overlordship, those unhappy left Westeros and actually founded a sellsword company in Essos (Company of the Rose). Torrhen himself doesn't have the best reputation, after all his nickname is the King who Knelt, not the Wise King or the King that saved the North.
 
Sep 2010
10,779
Kragujevac,Serbia
I don't see it. Greatjon Umber merely gave a justification for Northern independence: "Well, we actually swore fealty to the Targaryens and they are gone", while conveniently forgetting to mention that they also swore an oath to Robert Baratheon and his family. Thing is, we were actually given hints that weirwood arrows can harm the dragons. King Torrhen's bastard brother Brandon Snow attempted to persuade the king to allow him to try to kill Aegon's dragons. And it should be noted that not everyone in the North accepted Targaryen overlordship, those unhappy left Westeros and actually founded a sellsword company in Essos (Company of the Rose). Torrhen himself doesn't have the best reputation, after all his nickname is the King who Knelt, not the Wise King or the King that saved the North.
All of those things (weirwood arrows, sellsword company and Torrhen's reputation) are irrelevant (meaning, nonexistent) for the show, as is the fact that they swore an oath to Robert Baratheon, to a current political situation/plot in the North.

And you are wrong about Umber' speech. Implication that the main factor in acknowledging Targaryen supremacy are dragons (which, again, as far as the show goes, you should read as "unbeatable weapons against everything short of White Walkers") is pretty clear. Of course, that ignores why they stayed loyal to Iron Throne even after dragons disappeared, but nobody has ever accused northern lords or their arguments (including Greatjon's) of foolproof logic and/or consistency. The simple fact of the matter is that they have just not always been as ardent for independence as they like to pretend now.
 
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Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,690
Republika Srpska
Sure, the North didn't declare independence after the dragons disappeared, but it seems that in the aftermath of the Dance of Dragons, the Starks actually gained some influence in King's Landing. Lord Cregan Stark became Hand of the King and then Lord Torrhen Manderly, who was sworn to the Starks, also became the Hand. It wouldn't make sense to secede now when you can actually influence the entire realm. Later, Cregan's heir Rickon would fight alongside the Young Dragon and would die in Dorne. It seems this caused turmoil in the North, and we know about the turmoil during the time of the She-Wolves. So, it seems that the North was relatively unstable during much of Targaryen rule. This might explain why they didn't declare independence.

Though, of course, you are right, this never happened in the show, so...
 

Angelica

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
2,740
Angel City
I watched maybe 3 episodes at the beginning could not get into. My co-workers love this show.... It is often the topic of their round table discussion. I don't get it, not my cup of tea which is surprising to them I tend to like such showings. I need to give it another go.....
 
Jan 2009
1,218
It was pretty slow, given that this season is only supposed to have 6 episodes total. And they effectively spent 1/6th of the season as a recap. It also suffered, IMHO, from jumping too much all over the place, and they could have trimmed off some plotlines or saved them for later, which would have helped. Like focusing just on what is happening in Winterfell and made that tighter, too, so that we would actually get some progress rather than just people standing around and talking or sitting down and talking.

I also have to admit that Dany + Jon doesn't have nearly the chemistry of Ygritte + Jon, but perhaps that is not surprising since Y+J had time to let things develop and the actors actually ended up married, so there was true chemistry on the set, too.
 

macon

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
3,868
Slovenia, EU
It was pretty slow, given that this season is only supposed to have 6 episodes total. And they effectively spent 1/6th of the season as a recap. It also suffered, IMHO, from jumping too much all over the place, and they could have trimmed off some plotlines or saved them for later, which would have helped. Like focusing just on what is happening in Winterfell and made that tighter, too, so that we would actually get some progress rather than just people standing around and talking or sitting down and talking.

I also have to admit that Dany + Jon doesn't have nearly the chemistry of Ygritte + Jon, but perhaps that is not surprising since Y+J had time to let things develop and the actors actually ended up married, so there was true chemistry on the set, too.
Episodes 3-6 will be of double length so they spent 1/10 of time, not 1/6.
 
Jan 2009
1,218
Episodes 3-6 will be of double length so they spent 1/10 of time, not 1/6.
Ah, thanks, I did not realize that. That helps with the remaining time they have available.

Still, I didn't need the Last Hearth scene and the initial army march could have been trimmed down some, too. As could have Cersei & Eamon. By contrast, the scene with Dany, Jon and the dragons was pretty much reacted to by the participants with a shrug, while it should have been a huge deal. So I think they could have done better. Maybe it was because the previous season was two years ago, that they felt that they should ramp things up a bit more slowly?
 
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