Game of Thrones (SPOILERS)

Sep 2016
1,326
Georgia
At least Arya and Brienne didn't go 'Tee hee hee hee hee hee' when Sam proposed democracy. It was surprising to see Grey Worm and Tyrion not even utter a word when half the leaders of the noble houses insulted the whole population like that. Even Sansa was smiling like a pampered brat. This may very well have been the case in the Middle Ages but totally absurd considering the way these characters had been developed.
Well, Sam's proposal was ridiculous and moronic.

Liberal Democracies with universal suffrage finally developed only in 20th century !

Not to mention, that Westeros doesn't even have any legislature assembly. English Parliament was required to approve taxation or legislation.
In England various constitutional reforms and rise of Bourgeois elements happened throughout the centuries. English had Magna Carta in 1215, first Parliament in 1265, Statute of Marlborough in 1267, Model Parliament in 1295, House of Commons in 1341, Petition of Rights in 1628, Habeas Corpus Act in 1679 and Bill of Rights in 1689.

One of the biggest problems in France was that Bourgeoisie had no effective and consistent way of affecting King's policy, like in England.
Estates General were never summoned in 1484 - 1560 and 1614 - 1789, for example. Not once were Estates General summoned during those very long periods.

Bourgeoisie were able to finally attain political power and defend their interests only with Revolution.

What's the point of whole population participating in the vote, if they don't have any rights and can't represent or protect their interests ? Even Bourgeoisie class ( if I even exists ) has no effective way of affecting Crown's policy.
 
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Apr 2018
747
India
Well, Sam's proposal was ridiculous and moronic.

Liberal Democracies with universal suffrage finally developed only in 20th century !

Not to mention, that Westeros doesn't even have any legislature assembly. English Parliament was required to approve taxation or legislation.
In England various constitutional reforms and rise of Bourgeois elements happened throughout the centuries. English had Magna Carta in 1215, first Parliament in 1265, Statute of Marlborough in 1267, Model Parliament in 1295, House of Commons in 1341, Petition of Rights in 1628, Habeas Corpus Act in 1679 and Bill of Rights in 1689.

One of the biggest problems in France was that Bourgeoisie had no effective and consistent way of affecting King's policy, like in England.
Estates General were never summoned in 1484 - 1560 and 1614 - 1789, for example. Not once were Estates General summoned during those very long periods.

Bourgeoisie were able to finally attain political power and defend their interests only with Revolution.

What's the point of whole population participating in the vote, if they don't have any rights and can't represent or protect their interests ? Even Bourgeoisie class ( if I even exists ) has no effective way of affecting Crown's policy.
Ideation. I at least expected some wisdom from Tyrion. I'm not saying it was feasible in any way. In a society where literacy rate is probably less than 0.1% of the population, immidiate implementation of a democratic governing system is bound to be a recipe for disaster. But that doesn't mean the proposal didn't deserve a decent dismissal from someone like Tyrion Lannister to whose wit and wisdom an entire book is dedicated. This I say because even in the ancient world proto democracies existed in different forms like Greek elitocracy or the oligarchy in the Indian state of Licchavi. For a highly educated person the idea shouldn't come as something alien.
 
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Apr 2018
747
India
I wouldn't say it was bad writing. It's been a while, but I remember that once I figured out where the story was going, what the tale consisted of, I lost interest.
Thanks. Actually I found the gist of the story quite interesting and planned to read it someday. Just don't want to let that go based on premature judgement.
 
Sep 2016
1,326
Georgia
This I say because even in the ancient world proto democracies existed in different forms like Greek elitocracy or the oligarchy in the Indian state of Licchavi. For a highly educated person the idea shouldn't come as something alien.
Those weren't Feudal states like Westeros. Greece was also never unified during that period and Athens was just one city. Not to mention, that Greeks used slave labour.
Only Macedon and Rome managed to unify Greece, by using their military power.

There are famous examples of Republics in Italian city-states. Only Northern Italy was still fragmented during that period as well and saw a constant rivalry or fighting between those states.

We also have Dutch Republic emerging in 16th century. However, Westeros is not even close to having such strong development of Capitalistic and Bourgeois elements like in Netherlands.

Tyrion is a Feudal Lord, who wants to enjoy all the privilege of being a Lannister. That's what he always was and continues to be in the books. Benioff and Weiss whitewashed Tyrion beyond belief in the show and basically made him a Saint.
 
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Apr 2018
747
India
Those weren't Feudal states like Westeros. Greece was also never unified during that period and Athens was just one city. Not to mention, that Greeks used slave labour.
Only Macedon and Rome managed to unify Greece, by using their military power.

There are famous examples of Republics in Italian city-states. Only Northern Italy was still fragmented during that period as well and saw a constant rivalry or fighting between those states.

We also have Dutch Republic emerging in 16th century. However, Westeros is not even close to having such strong development of Capitalistic and Bourgeois elements like in Netherlands.

Tyrion is a Feudal Lord, who wants to enjoy all the privilege of being a Lannister. That's what he always was and continues to be in the books. Benioff and Weiss whitewashed Tyrion beyond belief in the show and basically made him a Saint.
What I'm saying is, considering the kind of person this whitewashed Tyrion Lannister had been developed to be, a simple acknowledgement (either positive or negative), say a remark like Lycurgus' "Start with your own family" would have sufficed. Without going into any real life details.
 
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Sep 2016
1,326
Georgia
What I'm saying is, considering the kind of person this whitewashed Tyrion Lannister had been developed to be, a simple acknowledgement (either positive or negative), say a remark like Lycurgus' "Start with your own family" would have sufficed. Without going into any real life details.
Yeah, I get your point.

I really think that Aegon in the books is going to be what Jon was supposed to be in the show. Aegon will be very popular King, who creates legitimate threat to Daenerys. Even though Aegon is probable fake, Daenerys will become the villain in the eyes of Westeros.
 
Dec 2011
1,304
I just watched one of those GoT youtube channels reporting on an HBO documentary on season 8, with the Night King actor saying that at the Battle of Winterfell, the strength of the Nigh King's army stood at 120,000 Wights while Daenarys and the North together fielded a mere 18,000 including Dothraki and Unsullied. The human forces supposedly lost "only" half of their troops. So, here we have it, that's why there are still that many Unsullied and a few Dothraki alive.

Also, Arya is jumping at the Nigh King from a pile of dead Wights that wasn't shown.
 

aggienation

Ad Honorem
Jul 2016
9,813
USA
I just watched one of those GoT youtube channels reporting on an HBO documentary on season 8, with the Night King actor saying that at the Battle of Winterfell, the strength of the Nigh King's army stood at 120,000 Wights while Daenarys and the North together fielded a mere 18,000 including Dothraki and Unsullied. The human forces supposedly lost "only" half of their troops. So, here we have it, that's why there are still that many Unsullied and a few Dothraki alive.

Also, Arya is jumping at the Nigh King from a pile of dead Wights that wasn't shown.
The Dothraki were previously numbered at nearly 100,000. The Unsullied were eight thousand. On top of that were the remaining forces from the North, the Nights Watch, the Wildlings, Knights of the Vale, etc. Far far beyond 18,000. And by the end the camera outright pans over the survivors. The Dothraki were slaughtered nearly to a man, justified by D&D comments in the post show saying the Dothraki were essentially destroyed, and the Unsullied position was completely overrun with almost no survivors, as you see them at the end and there are barely any left.

There were more alive later on because they needed more, so they retconned the battle of Winterfell. Its just bad writing.
 
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