Gandhi: Your assessment of his character & contribution to winning Indian Independence?

Aug 2017
204
USA
He was more concerned with appeasing the British or Muslims than fighting them.
Please elaborate on what you mean by "than fighting them" where it concerns South Asian Muslims. Would you rather he have advocated for pogroms or for genocide of the subcontinent's Muslim population?

He undermined democracy causing Nehru to become PM.
No, by taking people like Patel and Nehru under his fold and designating the latter as his successor, he actually contributed significantly to the establishment and preservation of Indian democracy. Anyone who has bothered to read the institutional contributions of Nehru to Indian democracy will immediately understand this.

His way of thinking was weak. Only Gandhian ideals could have led to India's idiotic "no first use" nuclear policy that allowed Pakistan to operate in Kashmir without fear of
retaliation.
Interesting. Would you rather India raze Kashmir or Pakistani cities like Rawalpindi, Islamabad, and Karachi at the slightest provocation and thereby risk universal international condemnation and sanctions?

His version of ahimsa is an idioctic philosophy and can only culminate in self starvation leading to death. The British benefited from him because they did not want a repeat of 1857. There were actually a couple of large scale army mutinies after WW1 and WW2. These were probably more persuasive to the British to pack their bags than a starving, self righteous bald vegan who was more of an amusement to his foes than anything else.
No, a combination of factors led to the British decision to quit India. While Gandhi's protests did not lead to immediate independence, his mass non-cooperation and civil disobedience movements certainly contributed to increasing British concessions to Indians for greater autonomy and self-rule. After WW2, the state of the British economy and military, the sheer discontent of the Indian population (Gandhi's contribution), the ascendancy of the sympathetic Labor government under Clement Atlee, and American pressure for Britain to give up its empire contributed to the British realizing the untenability of their control over India and finally leaving.
 
Last edited:
Nov 2014
1,654
Birmingham, UK
. All the caste conflict in India today is a gift of Ambedkar.

nothing to do with the caste system itself? which was created many hundred years before the good Dr Ambedkar was even born? you would rather blame the man who tried to oppose it? not the people who support its perpetuation? no, the caste conflict is the fault of the good man who rose from poverty and attempted to better the lot of his miserable impoverished fellow caste members/

that's a nice look. anyone would think you would rather the lower castes kept their mouths shut and accepted their fate, that reminds me of someone, hmmm whom might that be?
 
Aug 2019
46
Mars
Gandhi's approach to caste system was that he wanted to preserve it, and not eliminate it, because it was a part of Hinduism. He wanted to eliminate caste discrimination in stead. This produced a conflict with peoples like Ambedkhar.
I think Gandhi's approach was more appropriate for his time. Imagine he had tried to hammer centuries old institution in one go how much havoc such step could've created? He would've lost support of most of people as they would've seen it as direct interference in their 'religion'.
More sustainable way to remove social evils is to scratch it's surface bit by bit meanwhile maintaining amicability among different groups. Problem was not caste itself but different social status alloted to the castes. He understood psychology of Hindus very well. He knew Hindus won't have problem in considering castes 'equal' and that Hindu have more acceptance for the changes initiated by spiritual leaders instead of political leaders.
Swami Dayanand tried to change the society instantly which resulted in many attempts on his life.
Even today we see different types of 'activists' who claim that they are fighting against 'social evils' and 'inequality' but they often end up putting one group against another which creates new type of 'conflicts'. That's why before making any social change people need o draw a line and to decide how their 'activism' is going to affect the order of the society.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,747
New Delhi, India
that's a nice look. anyone would think you would rather the lower castes kept their mouths shut and accepted their fate, that reminds me of someone, hmmm whom might that be?
You could not have been more wrong. I am a staunch 'advaitist' who does not differentiate even between living beings and inanimate things.
"All things here are Brahman" (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma). But we have not interacted much. How could you have known!
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,747
New Delhi, India
Only Gandhian ideals could have led to India's idiotic "no first use" nuclear policy that allowed Pakistan to operate in Kashmir without fear of retaliation.
Vishnusena, 'No first use policy' is bull****. No two powers who have nuclear bombs will ever use it on any other - because they know that there will be a swift equal and opposite reaction. Nuclear bombs are deterants and not for use. Kashmir troubles have no relation to possession of nuclear bombs or any particular nuclear policy.
 
Feb 2019
475
Thrace
What the greatest mind of the 20th century (do I need to specify who?) had to say about Gandhi:

Mahatma Gandhi's life achievement stands unique in political history. He has invented a completely new and humane means for the liberation war of an oppressed country, and practised it with greatest energy and devotion. The moral influence he had on the consciously thinking human being of the entire civilised world will probably be much more lasting than it seems in our time with its overestimation of brutal violent forces. Because lasting will only be the work of such statesmen who wake up and strengthen the moral power of their people through their example and educational works. We may all be happy and grateful that destiny gifted us with such an enlightened contemporary, a role model for the generations to come.

Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood.
 
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Nov 2014
1,654
Birmingham, UK
You could not have been more wrong. I am a staunch 'advaitist' who does not differentiate even between living beings and inanimate things.
"All things here are Brahman" (Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma). But we have not interacted much. How could you have known!
how then is the caste conflict the gift of Dr Ambedkar?

he did not create this evil system, and it appears you blame him for trying to change it.

please explain how caste conflict is the fault of a man trying to change it, and, tangentially, why (it would appear) you think he is wrong for trying to change this hideous stain on India's culture?

please explain also how it is his fault and not the fault of those who still to this day go around beating and killing those of the lower castes- evidence if any were needed that people just like the good Dr Ambedkar are necessary, because without them people like you will sit back and complacently say 'the caste system will change, give it time (funnily enough , you know what i have noticed about these people who say the caste system will naturally change, almost of its own accord, and that higher-caste Indians will gradually give up their advantages- do you know, these people are never of the lower castes, what a coincidence that is.....)

I think the course of the last 75 years suggest that the caste system will not change unless people actively campaign to change it, and I think to blame Dr Ambedkar for current caste conflict is a rather nasty slur undeserved by a very great man who did his best to help those less fortunate
 
Jun 2017
537
usa
Blaming Dr Ambedkar for today's caste problems
is not right Aupji.
Caste system in India is a deep rooted evil that is in urgent need of change/elimination.
Between the two, complete elimination would be the better choice. that will also get rid of quotas and vote banks.
We can begin with eliminating "low" and "high" when talking about castes. That would be a big step towards equality in addition to removing caste based quotas.

It is beyond ridiculous that people are still talking about "gotras" after thousands of years.
How the heck do we know the authenticity of these gotras even if they are recorded?

Hindus need to think deep about their priorities. If there is one religion that can introspect and change with times it is Hinduism.
It is already changing, as we see in so many cases where young people these days marry without caring about caste but the change is not fast enough.