Gandhi: Your assessment of his character & contribution to winning Indian Independence?

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,755
New Delhi, India
Rajeev, you missed that Patel was a Bar-at-Law from the Honorable Middle Temple. Did Gandhi know that Patel would die in three years after independence? He should have left the selection of the Prime Minsiter to the Parliament. There must have been a reason why Patel could have got more votes. Gandhi had no business to interfere. But he was influenced by looks and pedigree and as a result India had to suffer a dynasty.
 
Oct 2015
1,138
India
Rajeev, you missed that Patel was a Bar-at-Law from the Honorable Middle Temple. Did Gandhi know that Patel would die in three years after independence? He should have left the selection of the Prime Minsiter to the Parliament. There must have been a reason why Patel could have got more votes. Gandhi had no business to interfere. But he was influenced by looks and pedigree and as a result India had to suffer a dynasty.
Oh yes, I erred regarding his education. Patel studied law at MIddle Temple, UK, as you have mentioned.

Not only that, Patel earned and from the saving, at the age of 36 years, he financed his studies in England. He was a successful lawyer as well. On the contrary, Nehru's education was paid for by his father Motilal and Nehru did not do well as a lawyer either.
 
Nov 2014
490
India
Like Valenceband said, the difference is in ways one wants to achieve this. Even if Ambedkar had not asked his followers to change their religion, caste differences were/are bound to disappear in the course of time. It is a part of the Indian Constitution and there is a strong law against it. What did change for those people? The word lower castes has been replaced by Buddhists. Other than that there is no change in their status.

Who kills the lower castes? Brahmins do not do it. Mostly, it is the 'Other Backward Castes', who are in competition with the lower castes for political power, who exploit them at the village level. Why blame the Upper castes for it? Reservations based on castes entrenched caste system in India. It should have been based on economic condition of the person. The advantages are with the lower castes, the lower the better. What advantages do the Upper Castes have other than being refused in education and jobs even when they may be better qualified. And does it help the poor? No. The creamy layer now stands at Rs.10 lacs/year (Creamy layer: above which the reservations do not apply). The real poor people cannot even dream of such income (Rupees 83,333 per month). And remember, there are many ways in which the income can be concealed.

IMHO, the Caste System will not change till the government continues to recognizes castes officially, as it does now. On one hand, you recognize castes and on the other you want the differences to be eradicated. That is unworkable, that is ironic. The current system has not helped the poor people in the last 70 years. And, Inshallah, I am sure, Modi and Shah will be able to do it before their term expires.
To begin with Ambedkar was not a leftist. He wanted reservation not for economic up-lifting of the untouchables, but for social and political reasons. I do not think Ambedkar would have approved of reservation on the basis of economic backwardness. Now we have reservations for the politically powerful and at the village level politically ruling other backward castes. OBC's are the very castes that crush the dalith communities at the village level in India. What a farce the reservation has become within couple of generations and we are complaining of caste system.

Caste system was not created by any one. When tribes were molded on the template of varna of Manu, castes were the result. I like to call castes as metropolitanised tribes. Caste discrimination is bad, but caste itself is not such a bad idea. It allows groups to retain distinct cultures within the same geographic area. Though, there is no reason to maintain a severe form of genetic isolation (which is not healthy). Genetically it can be a bit more fluid. Culturally it is a good thing to maintain different cultures for multi-cultural ism. I do not thick culture is a fixed entity over time or geography, even within a specific caste. It keeps on changing over time and geography. But it is good to have some form of castes for the sake of multi-cultural ism. That is the ancient Hindu solution for multi-cultural ism - not perfect. We do need to think of an alternative. This is the only major disagreement I have with Ambedkar's thinking, i.e. total rejection of caste system.

By the by, what is the solution of Abrahamic religions? Alla-hu-Akbar and lone wolfs?
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,755
New Delhi, India
I agree that assimilation of castes may have been the main target of Ambedkar but he was not unaware of the economic conditions of caste and tribes. After all, the Constitution, in which he was one of the major contributor, accepted reservations (affirmative action).
 

rvsakhadeo

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Sep 2012
9,222
India
Gandhi tried out weird experiments to test the control over his libido by sleeping naked with his niece. Nehru had to step in asking Gandhi to stop playing with his young niece as the nation was talking about this nonsense. Why did he not try out these things with his wife ?
He was a always imposing his views on the nation. For example, he insisted that the newly independent Govt. of India pay the Rs.550 millions due to be paid to Pakistan right away though the country was at war with Pakistan. He threatened that otherwise he will go on a fast unto death. Plain blackmail. Nehru paid the money.
Just two of the instances of this man's character.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,884
India
Gandhi led the political movement for the independence, without a successful political movement, India's transition from British colonial rule to a successful democracy wouldn't have happened. Although, there were others also who fought for independence of India, but their role was toned down in post-colonial narrative. Other thing was he was too much supportive of unjust demand by League favouring Muslims vis a vis Hindus.
 
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Sep 2015
443
Sri Lanka
Gandhi tried out weird experiments to test the control over his libido by sleeping naked with his niece. Nehru had to step in asking Gandhi to stop playing with his young niece as the nation was talking about this nonsense. Why did he not try out these things with his wife ?
He was a always imposing his views on the nation. For example, he insisted that the newly independent Govt. of India pay the Rs.550 millions due to be paid to Pakistan right away though the country was at war with Pakistan. He threatened that otherwise he will go on a fast unto death. Plain blackmail. Nehru paid the money.
Just two of the instances of this man's character.
Gandhi admits in his autobiography that he was greatly influenced by the thoughts of Shrimad Rajchandra who was a genius and having deep practical knowledge in the philosophy of Jainism. He also took the five basic vows for a layman in Jainism--- Truth, Non-Vilence to any living being , Non- Possession and Celibacy /Non-sexual passion Etc and he "experimented" with all the vows during different stages of his life- ---He is the most misunderstood Person /Politician in India !
But beyond that, he seems to be a true Jain when we see his braveness. We do not see any instance in his movements that he behaved like a coward.
Another great influence of Jainism on Gandhi was simplicity and the dress code. He did wear only essential clothing, that too made from cotton.[cf Half-Naked Fakir] He did wear white only cloths. A clear indication of influence by Jain Ascetic's life.
As we know, the Jain monks do not use vehicles and wander everywhere on their bare feet. Although Gandhi used vehicles, he is famous for his long marches on feet. His marches were clearly adopted from the practices of Jain monks. His "fasting unto death" to achive his political objectives have echoes of Jainism Etc
Gandhi's greatest contribution to Jainism was that he made Jain principles practical. He applied the principles on large scale involving masses. We can say that he was the first man to apply Jain principles for social and political movements. Unlike Modi Ji who is confusing the ignorant masses with the Political Ideology of Hindutuva with " Hinduism" in my own opinion :winktongue:

NB---He once visited Tamil area of Northern part of "British Ceylon" without visting the Capital Colombo ---I guess in 1920 or 1930 and returned by Palk--Strait to Thuthukudi -Madras[ There was frequent train services + short boat -ride ] without any Visa then :)
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,884
India
RSS is against caste system because that introduces schisms in Hinduism, their first concern. I prefer Narayana Guru to Ambedkar. Narayana Guru achieved caste equality without introducing any schisms. All the caste conflict in India today is a gift of Ambedkar.
Even if there was no Ambedkar, the caste schism would have been there because there are people who were not ready to accept the social change and would resist caste equality.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,755
New Delhi, India
There are three kinds of people. 1. Those who want to remove caste system, 2. those who want to preserve the caste system and discrimination, and 3. those who want to preserve the caste system but remove discrimination.