Ghana and Mali Empires and Their Scholars

May 2015
1,299
Germany
#21
It still shows a fair amount of territory south of Napata. This map here looks pretty legit:


Problem is that many map-artists exaggerate the extensions. In reality, its doubtful that direct Egyptian control stretched much beyond the fertile stripes of the Nile.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
31,338
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#22
Given that gold existed in countries which had no direct or indirect trade with Songhai, I'd say it's rather an exaggeration to say that the world's gold supply came from there.
 
May 2015
1,299
Germany
#23
Given that gold existed in countries which had no direct or indirect trade with Songhai, I'd say it's rather an exaggeration to say that the world's gold supply came from there.
It is no exaggeration. The trade with gold was West Africas main income for a half millenium, and large amounts of gold which was in use in both the Islamic World aswell as Europe initially came from West Africa. So its true that West Africa was one of the main suppliers of gold during world history.
 
#24
Given that gold existed in countries which had no direct or indirect trade with Songhai, I'd say it's rather an exaggeration to say that the world's gold supply came from there.
Came across this as well:

Traders and merchants from Ghana traded for gold from these mining areas by means of what has become known as ‘silent trade’, or dumb barter. Upon reaching the gold mining regions the Ghanaian traders would place their trade goods on the ground, then they would beat on large drums and blow on trumpets, before withdrawing out of sight. The local Africans would then emerge and place what they believed to be the equivalent value in gold on the ground next to the goods they wished to trade for. The Africans would then withdraw, and the traders would re-emerge. If the traders agreed with the exchange rate being offered, they would take the gold and once again beat their drums and blow their trumpets before withdrawing with the trade being completed. The gold would then be taken to the market towns of Kumbi Saleh or Aoudaghost, the southern terminus of the western trans-Sahara trade route that led from Marrekesh in Morocco. In these towns the gold would be exchanged for salt and exotic Mediterranean goods transported across the Sahara by North African merchants. Through controlling the trade and taxing the import and export of goods transported to Ghana in exchange for gold the Ghanaian state was able to accrue wealth and strengthen its position.
As the west African Sudan and Sahel is largely bereft of salt, and salt was in short supply everywhere in the region, it ‘was literally worth its weight in gold’ to Africans in West Africa at the time (Crowder 1977: 28). The oases town of Taghaza, which was built completely from salt and was entirely dependent on food transported into the town from the North and the South depended solely on its production of salt.

When the Arabs conquered North Africa in the seventh century they discovered that Berber nomads on camels had long established trade links with Ghana, and that the main item of trade was gold. This was of particular importance to the Arabs for their monetary system was based on gold. For the coming eight hundred years, until the Americas were brought into direct contact with Europe and Asia, West Africa was to become the prime source of gold in Europe and the Levant. By the eighth century Ghana’s fame as ‘the land of Gold’ had reached the court of the Caliph in Baghdad, where news of its existence was recorded by the geographer Al-Fazari (Crowder 1977: 27). According to the early tenth-century geographer Ibn al-Faqih, gold grew there ‘in the sand, as carrots do, and is picked at sunrise’ (in Wright 2007: 19).
source: Gold The True Motor Of West African History: An Overview Of The Importance Of Gold In West Africa And Its Relations With The Wider World : Rozenberg Quarterly
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
31,338
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#25
It is no exaggeration. The trade with gold was West Africas main income for a half millenium, and large amounts of gold which was in use in both the Islamic World aswell as Europe initially came from West Africa. So its true that West Africa was one of the main suppliers of gold during world history.
Europe and the Islamic world don't constitute "the world", and being a main supplier doesn't equate to the entire world supply coming from there - which is what the poster implied.
 
Jun 2013
854
Universe
#26
Yes, Songhai Empire was the largest empire in Africa. It was nearly the size of western Europe and like Swaggnaut said that Egyptian map is highly exaggerated.
 
Jun 2013
854
Universe
#27
This is rich , like i told you its only a mosques not even close to university ,
if it was university then give us 5 guys graduated from it
No this is rich, why don't you cite us a source that states the University of Sankore was not a university, but mostly a mosque... Instead of making bold claims.
 
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Jun 2013
854
Universe
#28
Given that gold existed in countries which had no direct or indirect trade with Songhai, I'd say it's rather an exaggeration to say that the world's gold supply came from there.

I mean there are sources that state that. And given how rich those Western Sudanic kingdoms were due to gold. Its not an exagerration. During that time most of the worlds golds came from Western Sudan(Ghana, Mali, Songhai). Which is why people who were not from that area so desperately tried to find the source of the gold.

No one is making a claim that ALL the gold came from there, but again 2/3s.

"Mali was the source of almost half the Old World's gold exported from mines in Bambuk, Boure and Galam."
(--Stride, G.T & C. Ifeka. Peoples and Empires of
West Africa: West Africa in History 1000-1800".
Nelson, 1971)

"The most important foundation of Malian power,however, was control of gold, and it is as a man of gold that Mansa Musa is still remembered. His story is quite important to world economic history, since the supply of gold he commanded played a crucial role in the economic growth of the Mediterranean."
--Merry E. Wiesner 2002. Discovering the Global Past

"It should be remembered here that during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries there was an acute shortage of precious metals in Europe and in the Muslim lands and that the only really important source of gold was in the western Sudan and its hinterland."
--M. Ma³owist (1966). The Social and Economic Stability of the Western Sudan in the Middle Ages. Source: Past and Present, No. 33, (Apr., 1966), pp.3-15. Published by: Oxford University Press

"The rising European demand for gold, added to the perennial market in the Islamic states, stimulated more gold production in the Sudan, to the enormous fiscal advantage of Mali. In the latest medieval period overall, West Africa may have been producing almost two-thirds of the world's gold supply."
-- Ross E. Dunn. 1987. The adventures of Ibn Battuta, a Muslim traveler of the fourteenth century

Anyways if you're referring to one of the posts by me which touched base on Western Sudanic gold production, I didn't mean to say the entire world.
 
May 2016
974
Nabataea
#29
No this is rich, why don't you cite us a source that states the University of Sankore was not a university, but mostly a mosque... Instead of making bold claims.
i asked you first give us names of scientist graduated from Sankore university you said they were studying Greek books so i guess its not hard to find at least on name .


Again its only a mosque ppl go there to study Qur'an , hadiths and other Islamic stuff but university no .
 
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#30
i asked you first give us names of scientist graduated from Sankore university you said they were studying Greek books so i guess its not hard to find at least on name .


Again its only a mosque ppl go there to study Qur'an , hadiths and other Islamic stuff but university no .
Wrong. Manuscripts from Sankore and Timbuktu in its entirerty covered every aspect of humam endeavor, not just Islamic subjects.

https://memory.loc.gov/intldl/malihtml/malibibSubjects1.html
 

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