globalization ending

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,360
Italy, Lago Maggiore
On this point I would disagree... Any regime has to take into account the wishes of its population (especially the wealth aspect) otherwise it is doomed longer term.... This was the main factor in the downfall of the USSR... China saw the writing on the wall which is why it embarked on a journey to massively improve its economy and the wealth of its population, putting aside many of its ideological principles
No, I wouldn't say that ... the fall of the Soviet Union was due to two main factors:

* it kept on competing against the "West" [and this meant enormous military expenses and to use the best resources in that sector and not in common economical sectors];
* it didn't adopt market economy [like China did, even if planned]

The improvement of the lifestyle of the Chinese people is a consequence, not a motivation for political decisions.
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
4,996
Australia
I could also mention radioactive containers blocked in the Italian port of arrival, but this problem is more related to the forwarding companies [I guess that some Indian forwarding companies can have some troubles to decontaminate the containers after transporting goods from the nuclear industry].
They can decontaminate them if they want. The problem is that it is cheaper for them to simply bribe an official to claim that they gave been decontaminated. European authorities can't trust any Indian documentation so have to squander resources double-checking everything before it gets past the port.
 
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Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,886
They can decontaminate them if they want. The problem is that it is cheaper for them to simply bribe an official to claim that they gave been decontaminated. European authorities can't trust any Indian documentation so have to squander resources double-checking everything before it gets past the port.
Good governance – another aspect of how societies will do relative each other.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,886
On this point I would disagree... Any regime has to take into account the wishes of its population (especially the wealth aspect) otherwise it is doomed longer term.... This was the main factor in the downfall of the USSR... China saw the writing on the wall which is why it embarked on a journey to massively improve its economy and the wealth of its population, putting aside many of its ideological principles
Actually it does seem pretty well established that the Chinese leadership did look at social and political reforms, or amping up not just economic growth but economic growth geared towards private consumption. And it chose the latter, as easier to deliver without compromising the monopoly on political decision making. (And that's consistent with how the political leadership in South Korea or Taiwan had already done things.)

The Soviet style planned economies had lots of problems, but sheer lack of productivity wasn't really the worst. They produced certain things massively – but they did not have much production geared towards citizens' consumption.
 
Aug 2016
960
moscow, russia.
Change is invevitable. The most successful people learn to adapt and take advantage of that change.
that's what they say, in line with todays newspeak, and 'most successful people' - to put it plain: most corrupt ones.
 
Aug 2016
960
moscow, russia.
Any regime has to take into account the wishes of its population (especially the wealth aspect) otherwise it is doomed longer term.... This was the main factor in the downfall of the USSR
by that logic, CCCP should have collapsed much earlier, when it had real problems, not in 1991 when these were solvable.
China saw the writing on the wall which is why it embarked on a journey to massively improve its economy and the wealth of its population, putting aside many of its ideological principles
same was about CCCP that by 1991 had Communism discarded, however China is still there while CCCP is no more.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,030
by that logic, CCCP should have collapsed much earlier, when it had real problems, not in 1991 when these were solvable.

same was about CCCP that by 1991 had Communism discarded, however China is still there while CCCP is no more.
Apparently the overwhelming majority did not think these problems were solvable... also the difference with the "west" wealth wise was greater in the 80s than in the 50s for example.... In the early 1950s very few people had fridges or cars (except in the US) , by the 80s most everybody had them... in the early 60s North Korea was actally ahead of south Korea... by the 80s it was lagging very far behind..... One can multiply the examples, but basically people knew communism was not getting them prosperity and the gap between the USSR and the more advanced countries was growing..... China went communist in 1949 so about 30 years after the USSR and had not gottent to the point yet in 1991 were people were completely disillusioned with it (but it seemed close, so the leadership acted preventively)


In 1948 just two per cent of households in Britain owned a fridge

even in 1959, as we bounced back to prosperity, only 13 per cent of homes had a refrigerator (compared with 96 per cent in America)
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,886
that's what they say, in line with todays newspeak, and 'most successful people' - to put it plain: most corrupt ones.
It's been observed since Herakleitos.

You want to be generally disillusioned and cynical, that's your prerogative. It doesn't change the basic correctness of the observation.

Even if you're right, all your attitude can do is allow the scammers and grafters to get away with it. Best you can do is try to join them really. Because clearly trying to adress the problem has no point whatsoever. It's why cynicism is self-defeating.
 
Aug 2016
960
moscow, russia.
Apparently the overwhelming majority did not think these problems were solvable...
but they did, while no expecting CCCP destroyed, for if they knew this happens, they would have not let Communists go.
the difference with the "west" wealth wise was greater in the 80s than in the 50s for example
and how destruction of CCCP instead of addressing the issue would make up for this? 1990s Russia was even worse off later on.
basically people knew communism was not getting them prosperity
communism was already out of question by 1991 and CCCP was to go world markets like China did, there was no reason to destroy it.