Golan Heights

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,106
Connecticut
Exactly. One big reason behind Israel's giving back Sinai to Egypt so readily was that the Egyptians were successful in forcing the Israelis to pay an unusually high price for sitting on Sinai. All the Syrians has ever done is whining.
The Syrians fought very courageously and at times well. They took a fairly high toll of Israeli jets in ‘73, and they got in a few good punches even in ‘82–I was surprised at the complimentary remarks in the book on Israeli tank battles. According to Pollack the SAF even did better in air to air combat than the EAF.

6th of October, 1973 was one day when Israel understood that it would be better not to screw with Egypt. They lost more tanks on that day than the Syrians lost in the Valley of Tears.
I doubt it.
 
Apr 2018
710
India
The Syrians fought very courageously and at times well. They took a fairly high toll of Israeli jets in ‘73, and they got in a few good punches even in ‘82–I was surprised at the complimentary remarks in the book on Israeli tank battles. According to Pollack the SAF even did better in air to air combat than the EAF.
Arabs at war by Kenneth Pollack? How does he analyze the Valley of Tears debacle and Operation Badr?

I'll tell you why I put such emphasis on these two engagements. It is because only on these two occasions the Israeli defenses suffered/came close to being wiped out and both these battles took place under some serious Arab SAM coverage. While Badr was pulled off brilliantly, I can't really say the same about Valley of Tears. I don't know whether it's only me, but I see the ghost of Prokhorovka in Valley of Tears. Syrians lost 500 tanks and APCs just to break through the defenses of 188th Armored Brigade, only to fall back when IDF reserves were committed to battle. I can understand that they were under Soviet influence but the fact that Syria could never absorb the material losses associated with a Soviet style armoured assault to a higher ground was supposed to be common sense right?

I admit that the Egyptians also failed to follow on Operation Badr with further successes but their performance was way better than that of the Syrians.

AFAIK, the entire AA operations were planned and overseen by Russian officers. However I'd like to know what Pollack says about that. As for SAF and EAF, both sucked compared to the IAF. But I won't comment on that as I only remember bits and pieces. You might be able to elaborate better.

I doubt it.
Which part? The tank losses part or the convincing part?
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
If their priorities were aligned with Muslim sentiment, israel would have been on the top of their hit list. As I pointed out before, neither AQ nor ISIS ever targeted israel. A dead giveaway.

Establishing and supporting israel is the root cause of animosity towards the west. It doesn't make any sense to go after the west, completely overlooking israel.

P S. Don't try to pull that 'amti-semetic' card while discussing israel.
Their priorities is to go after the “defectors” first, that is the priority of the muslim sentiments, CLEANSE and PURIFY the ranks first has always been the first priority, AQ and ISIS are very consistent with the rest in that.

I pull whatever I want, Muslim Antisemitism is not related to Israel but most hate for Israel is related to Muslim Antisemitism.

In fact, it is so ingrained that Muslims and their deflectors are attributing terrorism to “someone” else in a very Antisemitic undertone, or should I say overtone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Menshevik

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
Muslim Antisemitism is not related to Israel but most hate for Israel is related to Muslim Antisemitism.
I'm not sure I fully understand: in Your opinion, Muslims' anti-Semitism would be as strong as it is without the existence of the State of Israel?
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
I'm not sure I fully understand: in Your opinion, Muslims' anti-Semitism would be as strong as it is without the existence of the State of Israel?
What is ambiguous about my statement exactly?
Muslim Antisemitism predates Israel to the level of bragging about “allowing them” to live in Muslim majority society pre-Israel.
As for strength, I did not attribute a strength level either way but wouldn’t that explain having an older and stronger hate towards other groups “in their lands” they are currently taking care of first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Menshevik

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,057
Italy, Lago Maggiore
You're right, they aren't.

Maybe it's only that Israel doesn't have an extradition treaty with Romania. Maybe the Romanian and Israeli politicians like it like that, and wanna keep it like that?

Romania leader skips corruption hearing by visiting Israel
Yitzhak Rabin former chief of staff among Israelis accused of corruption in Romania
Israeli convicted for targeting Romania’s anti-corruption chief
One of the parties sustaining Italian government would recognize the Israeli sovereignty about Golan Heights and it would move the Italian Embassy to Jerusalem ... ["step by step", to quote that party]. The other party is neutral. The problem is that they want to recognize the Russian sovereignty on Crimea as well.

But Italian politics is a mess, you know.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
What is ambiguous about my statement exactly?
It's less about the "ambiguity" of Your post than about me understanding what You mean.

I do not know about pre-Israel state aparition anti-Semitism in Muslim societies. As I do not know how much pre-Israel state existence (actually pre-WWII) anti-Semitism level in Europe would compare to the one in Muslim societies.

The anti-Semitic dropped suddenly and dramatically in Europe (Christian societies) after WWII, because of WWII.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
It's less about the "ambiguity" of Your post than about me understanding what You mean.

I do not know about pre-Israel state aparition anti-Semitism in Muslim societies. As I do not know how much pre-Israel state existence (actually pre-WWII) anti-Semitism level in Europe would compare to the one in Muslim societies.

The anti-Semitic dropped suddenly and dramatically in Europe (Christian societies) after WWII, because of WWII.
The original posts I replied to were not about Europe, I can tell you my perceptions about western countries when they are part of the topic.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
The original posts I replied to were not about Europe, I can tell you my perceptions about western countries when they are part of the topic.
It wasn't about Europe. I introduced Europe because I know anti-Semitism existed, and because anti-Semitism changed in Europe because of a "cathaclism". One, that afaik, didn't existed in Mideast (Shoa's existence is even contested there).

Bref, I know about the evolution in Europe, but less (close to nothing) in Mideast.
 

Iraq Bruin

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
5,195
DC
It wasn't about Europe. I introduced Europe because I know anti-Semitism existed, and because anti-Semitism changed in Europe because of a "cathaclism". One, that afaik, didn't existed in Mideast (Shoa's existence is even contested there).

Bref, I know about the evolution in Europe, but less (close to nothing) in Mideast.
I introduced anti-semitism because it usually is the undertone behind PRETENDING that Islamic terrorism and extremist groups are “the creation” from without and or through collaborators with “sinister” outsiders, the evidence for that marvelous theory is their “lack of anti-Israel” behavior. It was not a study on levels, rather to highlight the two intertwined pieces:
1-the underlying deflection of such proposition which has some anti-Semitic reasons to it.
2-pretending these groups behavior of primarily targeting and cleansing the “ heathens/fifth column/accused ex Muslims/real ex Muslim “ before many other groups, the pretending that they are not following the example of the “followed” and “respected” over 13 centuries of targeting these groups first.

Combine 1 with 2 and you get what I am talking about.