Great Zimbabwe- The largest precolonial stone structure south of the Sahara?

Jun 2013
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canada
Why is a tired old argument--unless you are some form of racist or afrocentrist who cannot resist showing the chip on his shoulder? I happen to have spent a lot of my time visiting sites of historical interest in Africa--some that you have probably not heard of because they are not in the easy-to-read popular books nor have they yet come to the attention of foreign academics. But as I am no longer active in that area, I would be interested to know of any new findings that someone seems to be aware of. Africa south of the equator has a history that has hardly been scratched and apart from the Palaeolithic, the only work is carried out by enthusiastic locals, mainly amateurs.
One reply and the predictable insults begin. All of the ruins I've already shown were built and maintained by Africans, there's no disputing that. You can rant on and on about Arab and Muslim influence all you want, but being influenced by outside civilization in no way invalidates any of the examples I've listed.

The part about ruins books and the internet are unaware of go without saying.
 

Ancientgeezer

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
8,894
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
One reply and the predictable insults begin. All of the ruins I've already shown were built and maintained by Africans, there's no disputing that. You can rant on and on about Arab and Muslim influence all you want, but being influenced by outside civilization in no way invalidates any of the examples I've listed.

The part about ruins books and the internet are unaware of go without saying.
In other words, you don't know the subject, but you would like to make a noise about it.
 
Jun 2013
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canada
In other words, you don't know the subject, but you would like to make a noise about it.
Nothing about what I said would imply that I wish to have nothing more than an honest discussion about the OP. You certainly do not, you would rather accused me of being a racist or a Afrocentrist with an agenda to peddle, and by doing so, have thoroughly derailed any chance of a meaningful discussion occurring in this thread.. And, by going on and on about Arab/muslim influences, you've only exposed that you are not as knowledgeable about African history as you would like to believe you are.

I mean, if you can sum up African architecture as "structures influenced by Arabs/Muslims", and great zimbabwe, there's really nothing more that needs to be said.
 
Aug 2014
1,832
Huntington Beach CA
And what about Nubia? What about Meroe and Napata (although I suppose one could quibble over whether Nubia is south of the Sahara). And what of Axum which is definitely south of the Sahara and a lot larger than Zimbabwe and not fully excavated yet?
 

Lowell2

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,541
California
there doesn't seem to be a lot of research done on Sheba, an Ethiopian kingdom. Part of that is the anti -biblical people tending to insist any such is a myth and the biblical folk trying to assert that anything they find "must" be Sheba. However, there is some serious archaeological evidence for something -- so maybe there is more to be found there.
Archaeologists strike gold in quest to find Queen of Sheba's wealth | Science | The Guardian
A British excavation has struck archaeological gold with a discovery that may solve the mystery of where the Queen of Sheba of biblical legend derived her fabled treasures.

Almost 3,000 years ago, the ruler of Sheba, which spanned modern-day Ethiopia and Yemen, arrived in Jerusalem with vast quantities of gold to give to King Solomon. Now an enormous ancient goldmine, together with the ruins of a temple and the site of a battlefield, have been discovered in her former territory.
 
Jun 2013
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canada
there doesn't seem to be a lot of research done on Sheba, an Ethiopian kingdom. Part of that is the anti -biblical people tending to insist any such is a myth and the biblical folk trying to assert that anything they find "must" be Sheba. However, there is some serious archaeological evidence for something -- so maybe there is more to be found there.
Archaeologists strike gold in quest to find Queen of Sheba's wealth | Science | The Guardian


That's interesting news, but I find that myths like king solomon's mines, prestor john and the queen of sheba tend to distract people from real, concrete history in Africa. There was an article in the dailymail from 2009 claiming that sungbo's eredo(a large ruin in southern nigeria) was the palace of the lost queen of sheba. It sort of reminds me of how some early european explorers tried desperately to convince others that the ruins of great zimbabwe were originally phoenician or made by some ancient white civilization. It's insulting to the people behind these actual civilizations. Such myths don't really do African history justice because it ends up with the interested parties searching for the wrong things.

It sort of reminds me of the ancient aliens rubbish.
 

Lowell2

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,541
California
That's interesting news, but I find that myths like king solomon's mines, prestor john and the queen of sheba tend to distract people from real, concrete history in Africa. There was an article in the dailymail from 2009 claiming that sungbo's eredo(a large ruin in southern nigeria) was the palace of the lost queen of sheba. It sort of reminds me of how some early european explorers tried desperately to convince others that the ruins of great zimbabwe were originally phoenician or made by some ancient white civilization. It's insulting to the people behind these actual civilizations. Such myths don't really do African history justice because it ends up with the interested parties searching for the wrong things.

It sort of reminds me of the ancient aliens rubbish.
I did note the issue regarding pro/con religious basis. However, just because much of the Bible is myth doesn't mean that all of the people mentioned in it are myths and there is zero basis in reality. There may or may not have been a David or Solomon or "Sheba", but the find indicates an extensive gold mine and other evidence of a civilization at the right time and place. Following up on stories lead to finding Troy, much of the Minoan Civilization, even much of what is now known about the Egyptian pharaohs. I don't see why following up on a story about Sheba is inherently failing to do African history justice -- as long as proper research and documentation is employed about whatever may be found.