Had China democratized in 1989, what would the last 30 years have looked like for China?

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,417
#42
say by westerner who wish china fall to pieces like soviet union. have you seen recent hong kong demonstration? it turn ugly.
No, said by a democrat. The geography is incidental.

And your observation was made by an enemy of democracy. Possibly out of a genuine fear of break-down stronger than any wish for personal and political autonomy – for himself, for the Chinese, and for democrats globally.

Which is why the democratic world – west, east or other – is in an ideological conflict with China. Beginning fx with Hongkong... Or Taiwan...

The way you put it, the choice becomes one between China or democracy. If that's the choice, democrats will have to chose democracy over China, and democracy for China, regardless of any perceived risk.

The Chinese are clever people. Give them democracy and they will make it work. The argument for withholding it is simply fear – lack of confidence – lack of trust – mostly in the Chinese themselves.

Hongkong and Taiwan both emphatically prove China and the Chinese are perfectly compatible with democracy – if the powers that be would just allow it.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,417
#43
this is what democracy give to you ----> riot, chaos, instability, and finally collapse of nation.
View attachment 20630

Hong Kong Protest Updates: Leader Condemns Violence as City Remains on Edge

Hong Kong Protest Updates: Leader Condemns Violence as City Remains on Edge
How dare people have an opinion, and express it... [sarcasm]

If you genuinely believe the people belong to the state, and have no right to personal opinions, much less their expression, independent of the state, than that certainly makes sense.

That is of course political totalitarianism – of which the Chinese People's Republic is an example.

Which is why by its very nature it is the antithesis of democracy, and its enemy. It gives democratic no real alternatives except to confront totalitarianism.

The most obvious point of conflict comes over the right to form political opinion and express is. China doesn't allow it. So there's conflict.

Why is the Chinese choice totalitarian autocracy and conflict – with its own people, and with democracy?
 
May 2017
278
China
#44
How dare people have an opinion, and express it... [sarcasm]

If you genuinely believe the people belong to the state, and have no right to personal opinions, much less their expression, independent of the state, than that certainly makes sense.

That is of course political totalitarianism – of which the Chinese People's Republic is an example.

Which is why by its very nature it is the antithesis of democracy, and its enemy. It gives democratic no real alternatives except to confront totalitarianism.

The most obvious point of conflict comes over the right to form political opinion and express is. China doesn't allow it. So there's conflict.

Why is the Chinese choice totalitarian autocracy and conflict – with its own people, and with democracy?

you still dont understand anything dont you? many of this hong konger want complete independence, what i mean are totally and complete independence from china not just having autonomy.

they want to preserve their cantonese language and culture, i have seen their opinion on the internet, you just dont get it.

chinese people and china as state and civilization have exist more than 2.300 years old (if calculated since first qin dynasty) and literally living inside autotharian / totalitarian state, we still alive and exist, and our culture flourish, everything just fine, no problem until you and your fellow western who have evil deed trying to introduce democrazy into china, trying to change china's society and social structure, turn it into chaos and disorder, with your ultimate aim to divide and conquer china completely, shattering it into many pieces.

you and your fellow westerner hate china and chinese people, remember the term "yellow peril" ??? it was used for refering china during 20th century

Yellow Peril - Wikipedia
The Yellow Peril (also the Yellow Terror and the Yellow Spectre) is a racist color-metaphor that is integral to the xenophobic aspect of colonialism: that the peoples of East Asia are an existential danger to the Western world. As a psycho-cultural perception of menace from the Eastern world, fear of the Yellow Peril was more racial than national, a fear derived, not from concern with a specific source of danger, from any one country or people, but from a vaguely ominous, existential fear of the faceless, nameless horde of yellow people opposite the Western world. As a form of xenophobia, the Yellow Terror is the fear of the non-white Other, from the Orient, as imagined in the racialist book The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy (1920), by Lothrop Stoddard.[1]

The ideology of the Yellow Peril is a "core imagery of apes, lesser men, primitives, children, madmen, and beings who possessed special powers", which are cultural representations of colored people that originated in the Greco–Persian Wars (499–449 BC), between Ancient Greece and the Persian Empire; centuries later, Western imperialist expansion included East Asians to the Yellow Peril.[1][2]

In the late 19th century, the Russian sociologist Jacques Novikow coined the term in the essay "Le Péril Jaune" ("The Yellow Peril", 1897); later, Kaiser Wilhelm II, German Emperor (r. 1888–1918) used Yellow Peril racism to encourage the European empires to invade, conquer, and colonize China.[3] To that end, the Kaiser misrepresented the Asian victory in the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905) as a racialist threat to the white citizens of Western Europe, and misrepresented China and Japan in alliance to conquer, subjugate, and enslave the Western world.
 
May 2017
278
China
#46
No, said by a democrat. The geography is incidental.

And your observation was made by an enemy of democracy. Possibly out of a genuine fear of break-down stronger than any wish for personal and political autonomy – for himself, for the Chinese, and for democrats globally.

Which is why the democratic world – west, east or other – is in an ideological conflict with China. Beginning fx with Hongkong... Or Taiwan...

The way you put it, the choice becomes one between China or democracy. If that's the choice, democrats will have to chose democracy over China, and democracy for China, regardless of any perceived risk.

The Chinese are clever people. Give them democracy and they will make it work. The argument for withholding it is simply fear – lack of confidence – lack of trust – mostly in the Chinese themselves.

Hongkong and Taiwan both emphatically prove China and the Chinese are perfectly compatible with democracy – if the powers that be would just allow it.

i am not democrat, not even american. and i dont see american democrat party want autotharian state like china, stop this non-sense.

this is my opinion, you want to say i am enemy of democrazy? and why you always mention democrat? are you american who pro republican and trump?

you should stop talking non-sense, why you keep mentioning democrat? are you have deep hatred to democrat? i dont even care if democrat pro china or not.

lack of trust? lmao, son, i am telling you, those hong konger and taiwanese NOT only wanted democrazy, they want complete independence from mainland china, you just dont get it dont you? or you trying to ignore it? here i give you some source of it.

from historum itself, thread closed :
Should southern China become independent?
Should southern China become independent?

Teochew-Hokkien is an Independent Nation
Teochew-Hokkien is an Independent Nation – Republic of Teochew and Hokkien
This article aims to demonstrate that the Teochew-Hokkien People are an independent nationality. This article does not aim to prove that “ Teochew-Hokkien people should integrate into the Zhonghua Minzu or Han Chinese nationality”, or that “Teochew, Hokkien, Taiwan, and Singapore should establish a Pan-Hoklo nationality.” This article does not serve as a value judgment (of course you can all have your own judgments about the facts I’ve laid out), but serves only to elaborate on the fact that the Teochew-Hokkien people are indeed an independent nation.

'Independence For Guangzhou' Slogans Seen on Streets of Southern Chinese City
'Independence For Guangzhou' Slogans Seen on Streets of Southern Chinese City

https://www.quora.com/What-will-hap...rovince-Canton-becomes-an-independent-country


Cantonese independence?
https://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-513691/cantonese-independence?pg=0

Is Cantonese's fate of dying inevitable?? Is there any hope left?
Cantonese Learning and Discussion Forums

I don't care about this so-called "patriotic Cantonese". I just know there are fewer and fewer people in Guangdong can speak Cantonese.

I tell you: A divided China does not have to be a weak China. You have been brain-washed by CCP. On the contrary, a communist dictatorship and strong China will be the real nightmare, even to you. But I bet you will not realize. Because you are a slave.

I just know: The CCP is killing the cultures of Tibet, Uigur, and Cantonese.

Taiwan is more lucky. HK is on the edge of danger. Keep fighting!





you see, link and comment above ^^^^? separatist logic, your logic are same like him, he say divided china will make china more stronger, lmao.


you see, all of links i give to you proven that i not have irrational fear, they dont just want democrazy, they want complete independent.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,417
#47
Independence guarantees democracy – since the People's Republic is going to take it away. It's a means to an end.

And the fear of democracy is till all yours, as it is a fear of the Chinese people shorn of autocracy owning them and telling them what to think.

As for myself, I'm in Sweden. As we speak Swedish democracy is being directly targeted by Chinese state, through its embassy in the country, which has launched into a systemic campaign of trying to meddle in the free Swedish formation of opinion.

Fortunately they are so BAD at it, what the Chinese embassy has managed to do is alert the Swedish public to how our democratic system in being attacked by China. The efforts by the embassy are clearly counter-productive, giving China a bad (worse, art least) name in Sweden. But they are keeping it up, which means they are under instructions from Beijing to do so.

The Chinese attack on democracy is no longer limited to China.
 
May 2017
278
China
#48
Independence guarantees democracy – since the People's Republic is going to take it away. It's a means to an end.

And the fear of democracy is till all yours, as it is a fear of the Chinese people shorn of autocracy owning them and telling them what to think.

As for myself, I'm in Sweden. As we speak Swedish democracy is being directly targeted by Chinese state, through its embassy in the country, which has launched into a systemic campaign of trying to meddle in the free Swedish formation of opinion.

Fortunately they are so BAD at it, what the Chinese embassy has managed to do is alert the Swedish public to how our democratic system in being attacked by China. The efforts by the embassy are clearly counter-productive, giving China a bad (worse, art least) name in Sweden. But they are keeping it up, which means they are under instructions from Beijing to do so.

The Chinese attack on democracy is no longer limited to China.
oh so you admit it now, you are Swedish SJW from sweden, who support separatist in china, right?

china did not trying to destroy sweden democrazy, china just trying to stop people like you evil swedish from meddling chinese affairs like hong kong taiwan tibet and xinjiang's cases. (that you called as democracy?)

you swedish SJW love to meddling chinese affairs like hong kong taiwan tibet and xinjiang (uyghur).

if you swedish stop meddling our chinese affairs, then it will be no reason for us to meddling into sweden's affairs.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,742
SoCal
#49
oh so you admit it now, you are Swedish SJW from sweden, who support separatist in china, right?

china did not trying to destroy sweden democrazy, china just trying to stop people like you evil swedish from meddling chinese affairs like hong kong taiwan tibet and xinjiang's cases. (that you called as democracy?)

you swedish SJW love to meddling chinese affairs like hong kong taiwan tibet and xinjiang (uyghur).

if you swedish stop meddling our chinese affairs, then it will be no reason for us to meddling into sweden's affairs.
I think that he's actually American.
 

Similar History Discussions