Had China democratized in 1989, what would the last 30 years have looked like for China?

HackneyedScribe

Ad Honorem
Feb 2011
6,540
Just demonstrates what I said then – the Chinese have no confidence in China OR the Chinese. You have decided you NEED to be ruled by an authority that is not answerable to the people – because you fear the Chinese. Of course, that IS what the Chinese public is being told to think about it by the CCP. To fear itself, so that it becomes acceptable to be ruled from above.
And you base that off of what one looney said in a forum?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

Ad Honorem
Oct 2013
4,574
Canada
Not at all. The only one claiming that is YOU, and the fear of democracy, and the fear of the Chinese people itself, is all yours.
Clearly not just him claiming it.

Western Liberal Democracy is alien to China. Therefore, WLD is unsuited for the Chinese Civilization and people under a Chinese nation state. China is not required to become a WLD. It may become one if it tried, but it should not and will not. Even if it could, it should not. China should retain it's uniquely Chinese political model and work to refine it rather than cause a revolution to becoming a WLD.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
Clearly not just him claiming it.

Western Liberal Democracy is alien to China. Therefore, WLD is unsuited for the Chinese Civilization and people under a Chinese nation state. China is not required to become a WLD. It may become one if it tried, but it should not and will not. Even if it could, it should not. China should retain it's uniquely Chinese political model and work to refine it rather than cause a revolution to becoming a WLD.
Should other Asian countries also adopt China's model?
 

HackneyedScribe

Ad Honorem
Feb 2011
6,540
The official line of the Chinese government is that every country is different, so what works for the Chinese may not work for everyone else. Each country needs to find their own way.
Of course, that's what people would say if they want a monopoly over a competitive advantage. Much of China's current system was learnt from Singapore in the first place, but on the other hand one could say that Singapore consisted mostly of Chinese people.

Also people need to address the inconsistency of "free media" before bringing it up, despite how the one drop of truth is consistently drowned in an ocean of BS. Even something as small as Winnie the Pooh is drowned in BS. China censors Winnie the Pooh? Any Chinese can go into a Chinese search engine and see that's not true. So it's really hard to pass this off as some honest mistake that everyone made at the same time. Just one example amongst many, and the vast majority of people fell for it hook line and sinker. The most effective propaganda is the one in which people don't know it's propaganda.



China censors too much, but on the other hands some countries needs to hold SOME form of media accountability. A war that's costing close to half a million deaths, based on a lie told not just to the nation but to the entire United Nations, and no one is held accountable with the appropriate punishment? This isn't a Winnie the Pooh level mistake. People died over this lie, and before this people died over other lies which started other wars. An "oops" shouldn't be enough the first time around, yet the same mistake is repeating the second, third, fourth, and fifth time around.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist
Jul 2014
1,641
world
Historically China has had huge civil wars and genocidal levels deaths in wars when ruling dynasty was kicked out.

The aftermath of Qing victory over the Ming dynasty decimated Sichuan and south western provinces. Taiping rebellion resulted in 20-30 million dead. Dunguan series of revolts resulted in around 15 millions death. Aftermath of Qing dynasty resulted in warlords and civil war and invited Japanese invasions.

So Chinese people are very nervous when this talk of changing power structure comes. With some very good justifications.

China saw what happened to USSR after democratic reforms. Everything went down for Russia and central Asian republics for more than a decade.
Civil wars, inflation, joblessness and so on. Chinese are also a risk averse people.

so people should give some slack to the Chinese people. They are not idiots and they have not been brainwashed by CCP. People genuinely like the communists in China.
 

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

Ad Honorem
Oct 2013
4,574
Canada
Should other Asian countries also adopt China's model?
Should they - no. And I don't have the right to say how Japan's political system ought to be or how Kyrgyz ought to run their country. Every country is different. Because China lacks a Crusader or Messiah complex, it has little desire for the entire planet to conform to the same political system.

But if they would like to - China should act as a consultant. China advise but would not attempt to force a political system through bombs or masking it behind charity baskets to developing countries.
 
Oct 2015
955
Norway
democracy will become doom for china, china will turn into chaos if we let democracy exist in china, that is what western want, western want china fall into pieces. let be honest, most of you here especially western want china divided into smaller states, right?
That's a terrible thing to say about your own people. What do you think is wrong with the Chinese that makes them unable to elect leaders with their best interest at heart.
I live in the West and I've never ever spoken to or heard of a current Western who wants China to be broken up into smaller states. Many Westerners want Tibet to become independent again, but that's the only expetion I've heard any talk of. Do Chines media and books say Westerns want China to split into many parts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
That's a terrible thing to say about your own people. What do you think is wrong with the Chinese that makes them unable to elect leaders with their best interest at heart.
I live in the West and I've never ever spoken to or heard of a current Western who wants China to be broken up into smaller states. Many Westerners want Tibet to become independent again, but that's the only expetion I've heard any talk of. Do Chines media and books say Westerns want China to split into many parts?
Yeah, I think that other than Tibetan and perhaps Uyghur independence, the West isn't actually interested in a partition of China. Also, as I've said before, if other East Asians (Mongols, South Koreans, Taiwanese, Japanese, and even Singaporese) could have a successful democratic system, so could China. This has always been my belief in regards to this.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,321
SoCal
democracy will become doom for china, china will turn into chaos if we let democracy exist in china, that is what western want, western want china fall into pieces. let be honest, most of you here especially western want china divided into smaller states, right?
That would depend--what do the people in China themselves actually want?

@HackneyedScribe previously provided a link to a poll that said that only 29% of Tibetans actually want to secede from China. I wonder if the figures in the Uyghur-majority Kashgar Valley are going to be higher than this; possibly, given China's recent treatment of the Uyghurs.
 

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

Ad Honorem
Oct 2013
4,574
Canada
That would depend--what do the people in China themselves actually want?
They want national rejuvenation and China to return to a more powerful and prestigious state.

The Chinese want to honour their ancestors and be excelled by their progeny.

On an individual level, the Chinese like to have a good life, like anyone else in the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist