Had the Ottoman Empire survived, would a lot of its Arab and Kurdish population have gradually moved to Anatolia and Constantinople?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,747
SoCal
#11
The reasons it's in a better shape is because Atatürk made maybe the most radical transformation of a country in the 20th, bolshevism excepted.

I'm not that sure that a surviving OE would have seen such a transformation, and I'm even less sure that it would have succeeded if the attempt would have been made.

The cause of that change and the explanation of it's success is based exactly on the OE's unsurvival. The terms imposed on OE triggered the armed resistance, the military success of the war (which is "the Turkish independence war" for Turks, and that's saying a lot) is what gave Ataturk the status that permitted to implement (enforce would be appropriate in some cases) that reformation.

The current discrepancies aren't so much related to OE but to the post Ottoman period (I would call it "Western mismanagement", thinking mainly to BE and France). Before WWI, the differences weren't so flagrant between Tunisia, Algeria and Anatolia, for example.
Are you suggesting that Arab countries would have been as wealthy as Turkey right now had European countries not conquered them and had they been able to make a radical transformation just like Turkey did?
 
Oct 2013
14,421
Europix
#12
Are you suggesting that Arab countries would have been as wealthy as Turkey right now had European countries not conquered them and had they been able to make a radical transformation just like Turkey did?
"Arab countries" is a généralisation. It isn't more meaningful than "European countries": England isn't Italy, Italy isn't Russia.

But, in at least some of them, yes, it would have been possible: the premises were far from being that different between Turkey and some of the Arab countries.

You can go back to the small discussion we had in another thread on Jewish comunities in Moroco, Algeria, Tunisia and I think You will see what I mean.
 
Likes: Futurist
Sep 2016
1,141
Georgia
#15
Had the Ottoman Empire survived, would a lot of its Arab and Kurdish population have gradually moved to Anatolia and Constantinople in search of a better life and more opportunities?
1.6 million Greeks lived in Anatolia and Eastern Thrace by 1914. More than 1.2 million Greeks fled to Greece by the end of Greco -Turkish War in 1922.
190 000 Greeks were also transferred to Greece after the ,, Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations '' in 1923. Though Convention didn't include Greeks in Constantinople, but still around 50 000 Greeks fled from the city.

Thousands of Greeks were exterminated during that period as well.
 
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Likes: Futurist
Oct 2013
14,421
Europix
#16
1.6 million Greeks lived in Anatolia and Eastern Thrace by 1914. More than 1.2 million Greeks fled to Greece by the end of Greco -Turkish War in 1922.
190 000 Greeks were also transferred to Greece after the ,, Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations '' in 1923. Though Convention didn't include Greeks in Constantinople, but still around 50 000 Greeks fled from the city.

Thousands of Greeks were exterminated during that period as well.
To be honest, all that it's quit irrelevant for the "if" we're talking here: the Greco-Turk war was the most directly major event linked to the WWI (=unsurvival of OE).
 
May 2014
19,747
SoCal
#17
1.6 million Greeks lived in Anatolia and Eastern Thrace by 1914. More than 1.2 million Greeks fled to Greece by the end of Greco -Turkish War in 1922.
190 000 Greeks were also transferred to Greece after the ,, Convention Concerning the Exchange of Greek and Turkish Populations '' in 1923. Though Convention didn't include Greeks in Constantinople, but still around 50 000 Greeks fled from the city.

Thousands of Greeks were exterminated during that period as well.
As deaf tuner said, if there is no WWI, then there is probably not going to be a Greek genocide or mass Greek expulsions in the Ottoman Empire.