Has anyone here read Ambedkar's book "Pakistan, or, The Partition of India"?

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,783
USA
Poster Kandal you can't have it both ways. In one thread you complain about impolite and irrational behaviour of the Asian posters and in another thread you want Asian posters to take the 'bait'.

Caste system is a big problem in the subcontinent and if you genuinely want to discuss it then there is a separate thread in the forum where you can find like-minded people who can help you to know more about the complexity, historic development, extent, limitations, shortcoming and strengths of this system.
There are only two general ways in which vast culinary tradition of the subcontinent can be divided :
1. Royal(who may belong to variety of 'jatis' and religions) and commoners' food
2. Vegetarian and non-vegetarian food

If your posts(both here and in previous threads) are only motivated by your personal frustration or past bad experiences with Indian people then It would be best for you to just let it go and be a valuable contributor of this forum.
Lol! Reply to my points, and not about me.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Futurist

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,754
New Delhi, India
I do not see anything wrong with that.
A similar quarantine was applied at the time of birth of a baby. The Mother and the baby were kept in a warm (actually hot) room and were not allowed to meet persons from outside the family. The two did not move out of the room for 40 days. Even family members were asked not to enter the room frequently. That was to save the child from infections. Then, there was a small celebration of the baby's first outing - Nishkramana Samskara (Sanskara (rite of passage) - Wikipedia). Not all traditions were based on superstition. Some were result of long experience.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2017
537
usa
I think I can provide more clarification on some points in this post.

South Indian cuisine also makes heavy use of gingelly oil and ghee. I think historically coconut oil was only preferred in coastal regions like Malabar.

Nihari and Biryani are indeed foreign names but both of these dishes are absent in their 'alleged' original land. All of ingredients required to prepare Nihari and Biryani are native to sub-continent not central Asia. Better explanation can be that these recipies were enrichened under Mughal patronage but these were inspired from precursor Indian recipies.
Intrestingly anecdote of Noorjehan developing recipie of Biryani to save soldiers from malnutrition is similiar to example of rice-meat dish Oon Souru being prepared for the soldiers in Sangam era literature.

Disappointingly apart from Pancha-nada Mahabharata also mentions a rice-meat dish and many other food items. Both Pandavas as well as lord Rama were voracious meat eaters and wine lovers.;)

Among natives of subcontinent only Brahmins and Vaishyas were staunch vegetarians. Even Gautama Buddha and Bhikshus of Sanghas used to consume meat. Kshatriyas, Shudras and tribals used to eat almost everything except beef. On the contrary Akbar and Jehangir are believed to have preference for vegetarian food and Aurangzeb had turned into complete vegetarian in his later life.

In ancient Sanskrit and Pali canon we find many examples of Pulao-Biryani(there was not much distinction between these two in the starting) type dishes. Though cooking methods are not mentioned but ingredients like rice, milk, pepper, ghee, cumin, bay leaves, duck, fish, vension etc used to go into the cooking pot.

Pioneer of ancient medical science like Sushruta and Charaka even recommend different types of meats for curing different ailments. You can find an Ayurvedic remedy similiar(but less sophisticated) to Nihari which is prepared by slowly cooking meat and bone marrow with selected spices and ghee.

Unfortunately no ancient cooking book survives so it's hard to logically explain the effects of central Asia on Mughlai or Indian cuisine.

Oldest surviving Indian work which has few dedicated chapters for cooking is Manasollas attributed to Chalukya king Someshwara. It has many intresting recipies which unfortunately get overshadowed by king's favourite 'fried-skewered rats'.
The book has recipies for Urad daal 'Jalebis', pig roast, slow cooked Daal flavoured with asafoetida, rice(cooked with ghee, milk and saffron), ancestors of Bengali Roshogulla-Barfi-Gulab Jamun, offal curry, fried or roasted meatballs(similiar to koftas), meat stuffed birds etc.

The region in which Mughal dominated was historically most prosperous and cultured region of India. We don't know what natives used to eat and we will never know this part of history but the Mughlai cusinie with all of it's exquisite techniques and ingredients was developed in India by the Indian cooks so I don't know to which country/planet we should accredit it to except India.

In case there is no consensus about the place I suggest planet Mars. I'll brag that my ancestors developed Mughlai cuisine! :hug:
Very informative post!
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,883
India
I think I can provide more clarification on some points in this post.

South Indian cuisine also makes heavy use of gingelly oil and ghee. I think historically coconut oil was only preferred in coastal regions like Malabar.

Nihari and Biryani are indeed foreign names but both of these dishes are absent in their 'alleged' original land. All of ingredients required to prepare Nihari and Biryani are native to sub-continent not central Asia. Better explanation can be that these recipies were enrichened under Mughal patronage but these were inspired from precursor Indian recipies.
Intrestingly anecdote of Noorjehan developing recipie of Biryani to save soldiers from malnutrition is similiar to example of rice-meat dish Oon Souru being prepared for the soldiers in Sangam era literature.

Disappointingly apart from Pancha-nada Mahabharata also mentions a rice-meat dish and many other food items. Both Pandavas as well as lord Rama were voracious meat eaters and wine lovers.;)

Among natives of subcontinent only Brahmins and Vaishyas were staunch vegetarians. Even Gautama Buddha and Bhikshus of Sanghas used to consume meat. Kshatriyas, Shudras and tribals used to eat almost everything except beef. On the contrary Akbar and Jehangir are believed to have preference for vegetarian food and Aurangzeb had turned into complete vegetarian in his later life.

In ancient Sanskrit and Pali canon we find many examples of Pulao-Biryani(there was not much distinction between these two in the starting) type dishes. Though cooking methods are not mentioned but ingredients like rice, milk, pepper, ghee, cumin, bay leaves, duck, fish, vension etc used to go into the cooking pot.

Pioneer of ancient medical science like Sushruta and Charaka even recommend different types of meats for curing different ailments. You can find an Ayurvedic remedy similiar(but less sophisticated) to Nihari which is prepared by slowly cooking meat and bone marrow with selected spices and ghee.

Unfortunately no ancient cooking book survives so it's hard to logically explain the effects of central Asia on Mughlai or Indian cuisine.

Oldest surviving Indian work which has few dedicated chapters for cooking is Manasollas attributed to Chalukya king Someshwara. It has many intresting recipies which unfortunately get overshadowed by king's favourite 'fried-skewered rats'.
The book has recipies for Urad daal 'Jalebis', pig roast, slow cooked Daal flavoured with asafoetida, rice(cooked with ghee, milk and saffron), ancestors of Bengali Roshogulla-Barfi-Gulab Jamun, offal curry, fried or roasted meatballs(similiar to koftas), meat stuffed birds etc.

The region in which Mughal dominated was historically most prosperous and cultured region of India. We don't know what natives used to eat and we will never know this part of history but the Mughlai cusinie with all of it's exquisite techniques and ingredients was developed in India by the Indian cooks so I don't know to which country/planet we should accredit it to except India.

In case there is no consensus about the place I suggest planet Mars. I'll brag that my ancestors developed Mughlai cuisine! :hug:
All four regions of South India have different food. Andhra food is spicy, they eat daal rice like North Indians along with Sambar-rasam. Karnataka food is similar to Maharashtra aka Jowar roti is staple food in major part of Karnataka. Apart from Idli-dosa there are lots of common dishes like Poori-Sabzi or Khichdi, although South Indian version often hai curry leaves and Tamarind.
 
Aug 2014
1,273
pakistan
The region in which Mughal dominated was historically most prosperous and cultured region of India. We don't know what natives used to eat and we will never know this part of history but the Mughlai cusinie with all of it's exquisite techniques and ingredients was developed in India by the Indian cooks so I don't know to which country/planet we should accredit it to except India.
Biryani is very spicy, a sign of being Indian dish. Dishes of Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia are not spicy. Its taste would be bland for Indians and (majority of) Pakistanis.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,925
SoCal
Biryani is very spicy, a sign of being Indian dish. Dishes of Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia are not spicy. Its taste would be bland for Indians and (majority of) Pakistanis.
Which parts of Pakistan have spicy food?
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,783
USA
Biryani is very spicy, a sign of being Indian dish. Dishes of Afghanistan, Iran and Central Asia are not spicy. Its taste would be bland for Indians and (majority of) Pakistanis.
Origin of Biriyani is highly likely in India, created by Muslims. So is Nihari. Just tasting it would also give one that feel. The dishes have spread to neighboring regions, so outside origin claims are made, but highly doubtful. Making connections to pre-Islamic Indian dishes is also a stretch, since there is no real evidence.
Biryani - Wikipedia
Nihari - Wikipedia
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azad67 and Futurist
Aug 2014
1,273
pakistan
Which parts of Pakistan have spicy food?
Much of Pakistan i believe. I have only knowledge about Punjab and KPK. In my province the food become blander near Afghanistan and becomes spicier near river Indus. But even our spicy foods cant hold candle to the ones in Punjab. Those in Punjab put crazy amount of spices in their foods.