Has christian/Byzantine church art been influenced by Buddhist/Indian art?

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,647
Europix
i was talking about nike statue from sassanian rock cut architecture, now please dont waste my time.

over and out

regards
Sorry, but You shouldn't have quoted my post then: how could I have guessed that You weren't referring to the Snake Godess statue You quoted, but to another statue?
 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,647
Europix
even european gardens using charbag are using square division which means they are inspired by mughal indian designs, not persian rectangular designs



The renaissance style gardens at Chateau Villandry.
I beg to differ.

The garden You've posted is a Renaissance garden, conceived on an ideal of rationality, of "mathematical order", and it was inspired by the Greek ideals of mathematical/geometrical "perfection".

"Ars geometria" transposed in "ars hortorum".

The Renaissance garden is based on the "forma perfectissima":

" ... si debba il compositore ingegnare di ridurla a qualche specie di figura perfetta, come circolare, quadra o triangolare : dopo questi, più apparenti
sono la pentagona, esagona, ortogonia ... "


(".. the designer must restraint it's design to a couple of perfect forms, like the circle, the square or the triangle: besides these, come the pentagone, hexagone, octogone ... "
In F. di Giorgio Martini, "Trattato di architettura civile e militare" - 1482)

Honestly, I am very doubtful on a Persian/Indian filiation in this case. Its a certain pattern inscribed into a certain aesthetic. Persian aestetic, Hindu aestetic are quit different, AFAIK.

For me, it's just one of those cases were similarities are reached rather by independent roads. There are a lot of cases in human history.

"Perfect" geometrical forms is one of the most typical examples: any culture that is in a quest of perfection, of rationality will arrive inevitably at the circle, at the equilateral triangle, at the square, be it by itself or inspired by other cultures.


______
edit: a couple of examples of designs having the "perfect form" in mind
[centre]




[/center]
 
Last edited:
Mar 2019
1,809
KL
I beg to differ.

The garden You've posted is a Renaissance garden, conceived on an ideal of rationality, of "mathematical order", and it was inspired by the Greek ideals of mathematical/geometrical "perfection".

"Ars geometria" transposed in "ars hortorum".

The Renaissance garden is based on the "forma perfectissima":

" ... si debba il compositore ingegnare di ridurla a qualche specie di figura perfetta, come circolare, quadra o triangolare : dopo questi, più apparenti
sono la pentagona, esagona, ortogonia ... "


(".. the designer must restraint it's design to a couple of perfect forms, like the circle, the square or the triangle: besides these, come the pentagone, hexagone, octogone ... "
In F. di Giorgio Martini, "Trattato di architettura civile e militare" - 1482)

Honestly, I am very doubtful on a Persian/Indian filiation in this case. Its a certain pattern inscribed into a certain aesthetic. Persian aestetic, Hindu aestetic are quit different, AFAIK.

For me, it's just one of those cases were similarities are reached rather by independent roads. There are a lot of cases in human history.

"Perfect" geometrical forms is one of the most typical examples: any culture that is in a quest of perfection, of rationality will arrive inevitably at the circle, at the equilateral triangle, at the square, be it by itself or inspired by other cultures.
i dont think so, europeans do acknowledge the ''persian'' element in their renaissance period gardens

Many of the Islamic horticultural traditions and later European traditions derive from that of the paradise garden. Examples of the paradise garden and its derivations are present in many of the historic gardens of Islamic and European nations. In the east, by way of the Persian garden it gave rise to the Mughal gardens of India, a late example of which is the garden of the Taj Mahal in Agra. In the farthest west, it informed the paved and tiled courtyards, arcades, and pools and fountains of Moorish Andalusia. The fundamental design of the Gardens of Versailles in France almost replicates the paradise gardens of Pasargad, and the gardens of the Louvre in Paris appear inspired by them. Another example is the Bahá'í Terraces and Mansion of Bahjí on Mount Carmel in Israel, both of which have extensive gardens of intricate design.
but they dont know where it is coming from

Paradise garden - Wikipedia

greeks were also not known for their gardens.
 
Last edited:
Mar 2019
1,809
KL
Sorry, the site of Pasargade: wasn't excavated by archeologist some one hundred years ago?

What Renaissance gardners had as actual source of inspiration from Pasargade?
actually what is argued that persian gardens descend from that achaemenid thingy and inspired indians in east and islamic ones in the west and europe simultaneously, hence the word ''paradise'' in european languages.

but if you see the varseilles garden it has square division not rectangular division.

regards
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,647
Europix
actually what is argued that persian gardens descend from that achaemenid thingy and inspired indians in east and islamic ones in the west and europe simultaneously, hence the word ''paradise'' in european languages.

but if you see the varseilles garden it has square division not rectangular division.

regards
But when we say "inspired", we talk about the idea we made about something we heard about, an (idealised) image, or about the real thing?

Those are two different things.

but if you see the varseilles garden it has square division not rectangular division.
See my previous post and quote from the 15th c treaty.
 
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Mar 2019
1,809
KL
See my previous post and quote from the 15th c treaty.
the treatise mentions nothing which wasn't already implemented before thousands of years earlier, so i doubt that greeks especially inspired the renaissance gardens simply because greeks were not known for gardening.

It is curious that although the Egyptians and Romans both gardened with vigor, the Greeks did not own private gardens. They did put gardens around temples and they adorned walkways and roads with statues, but the ornate and pleasure gardens that demonstrated wealth in the other communities is seemingly absent.
regards
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,647
Europix
the treatise mentions nothing which wasn't already implemented before thousands of years earlier, so i doubt that greeks especially inspired the renaissance gardens simply because greeks were not known for gardening.



regards
I think You missred that passage and my post: it is not about gardening (the treaty I quoted is "Treaty of civil and military architecture") , it's about an ideal form, an ideal that is drawn from geometry.

BTW, I would be circumspect with the "Paradise garden" Wiki article. It says at a certain moment: "The fundamental design of the Gardens of Versailles in France almost replicates the paradise gardens of Pasargad, and the gardens of the Louvre in Paris appear inspired by them."

I don't see how Renaissance gardens You mentioned could replicate or being inspired by a design that wasn't known/accessible at the time.
 
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