Has Western capitalism become too efficient and ruthless?

Sep 2011
Also, remember that a lot of these loans are tax payer money that they should payback ( if not directly, then eventually as high tax rate on their income)
I spend 4% of my net income on my student loans as per the Swedish system.

Since this is run by the Swedish government at cost, with no profit motive, the actual cost to the Swedish state of borrowing that money is a 0,19% interest rate (as of 2018, it obviously varies but is consistently a lot lower than anything I as a private individual could negotiate with a bank).

Makes university education generally affordable, and only at cost to both government and private individual.

As far as I understand this, when the US runs a federal student loan program, the interest on loans is consistently no less than 4% (and up), currently 4.53%?

It's a pretty large gap between 0,19% and 4,53%. Is the US public sure it is being served here?
Oct 2010
Quality of education is a different topic but I am curious why it seems you disagreed earlier with the premise that some people among them presidential candidates have put forward that businesses require government regulation, infrastructure, enforcement, and standard-setting so successful businesses and the people who reap the most reward from success pay a higher portion of taxes- if communities are a group effort that rewards individual hard work- how is that different than communities loaning money to medical students who then are very highly reimbursed for their part in taking care of the community and the hard work required to reach and maintain that position with higher taxes proportionally on their income?

To me, it is the same idea but somehow I see people not minding that physicians or others who took out government loans getting taxed at a high rate but 'businesses' conversely that theoretically might do far less for the community (in fact could sell harmful or just trivial products) are more privileged than medical professionals?

Is it simply the link between a business being able to operate due to the government (taxpayer money at work) and direct loans to a person (doctors are really business professionals) is a bit less direct? Actually, a huge number of businesses depend on government support even more directly than medical students taking out taxpayer-backed loans. Subsidies, price floors, tax breaks for business investment, laws the protect from competitors stealing intellectual property, all sorts of things without which most businesses would not operate nearly as efficiently or in some cases at all.
I said the loans are taxpayers money that needs to be repaid since it was specifically taken by those individuals, I was not punishing success and rewarding lack of it.

In principle, I would not support a higher tax rate.
Oct 2010
@ iraq bruin
what make you think the US has a competent health care system ,
by any metric it is a dysfunctional vampiric construct made to extract money for the medical industry

if company profits are the only good to be considered , anyone who loose his life to protect such an aberration is delusional
their life is worth much more than a tenth of a point on the Dow Jones index
You mean other than living here?
then we disagree, a loan is to be paid back, taxes are generally speaking to cover services that are available to everyone.

I spoke about the loans as a matter of something that exists not as a defense or denunciation
Oct 2010
My opinion too.

It's the reason (in this comparison of healthcare systems too, for example) why I look for stats that take the overall costs/expenses, regardless who and how they're paid (out of the pocket, private insurance, governmental taxes). I believe it's a better indicator as it isn't blurred by ideological/social positions or convictions that all of us have.
I wanted to amen the post since I was on Metro typing quickly and briefly.

The reason I do not see it as the same (and I am not asking you to see it that way) is :

You give me a loan, I go to medical school.
You give X a loan, they keep the money and do nothing, or waste it.

The demand:
I repay it since it helped me go to medical school.
X does not have to pay it, and maybe get offered a "second loan" that x does not have to repay either.

We can discuss back and forth, use words and semantics and all, I doubt I will be able to see any other way but you can try if you desire :cool:
Oct 2010
In the few figures I used and posted, it's generally national level statistics, so the sample size isn't an issue: it's the totality of docs, of beds, expenses, aso, the population is total population, salaries, compensations are average at national level.
Actually, sample size matter, sample characteristics matter do.

Case in point an Average Salary in NY or CA would mean a better life in another state; inversely, that state's average salary will be barely enough in CA and NY.

Even then, not all places in those states are created equal either.

I do contend that such comparisons are useful for understanding only.

Even better question.

Actually, it would be quit simple to compare equivalents, and I think it could be useful: US and EU are very close, in terms population, economic development and level, it's also convenient as EU members are using the same principle (=universal health care) that is different of the US system, plus, good, reliable and accessible statistics exist and on US and on EU.

It's just that lately I am a bit reluctant to even remind the sylabe "EU". Simple mentioning it is sometimes triggering some strong reactions, and sometimes it's back-slashing. Me.
Find me an EU country of 20 Mil and compare it to NY-state and 40 Mil and compare it to CA, then you will see.

We keep talking about health care as a matter of life and death, these statistics need to be local-friendly to spot the more problematic areas.
Jun 2014
We keep talking about health care as a matter of life and death, these statistics need to be local-friendly to spot the more problematic areas.
I live in an area where medicine, medical research and medical technology is strong. I had my meniscus repaired by a surgeon who performs the same surgery on professional athletes. I know some of the posts have discussed health outcomes and accessibility. In my region, we have an abundance of great medical care. There is also a good deal of market competition between two health care insurers and that benefits the consumer.

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