heavy armored personnel carriers.

Jan 2013
1,207
Anywhere
#51
Drones have their place but we're seeing now is that they are spotted they can be rather easy to jam and even hijack.

But there are tactical scenarios where use of a drone, even one that can be jammed/hijacked is still worth using. I could see it being very beneficial during missions where enemy are dug in and advancing with dismounts or man-operated vehicles would be too costly in terms of casualties. Send in drones, conduct some recon and point attacks, attrit the enemy, then advance the humans.
The possibility of hacking, destroying or immobilize them can be a worry for commanders and operators. Especially this day-n-age where there are state sponsored hackers. And it'll suck big time if your in a conflict or in a peacekeeping mission where your drones just suddenly fry up during a firefight.

But back to the topic of Heavy APCs. I find it them necessary not just in conflict but other uses like removing debris from a natural disaster or from a riot. Cause I found that the Florida highway patrol used their armored vehicles to removing tree debris after hurricane Frances. Since I know the armored vehicles are used by TRT (Tactical Response Team) swat in orange county as they have BAE Caiman Mraps, Cadillac Gage V-150 armored cars, and Cadillac Gage Ranger APCs. Of course the National Guard and Army corp of engineers use better equipment to remove natural and manmade debris and damaged vehicles out of the way. So i believe or think that a Heavy APC can do the same by removing large and heavy objects that a crane or bulldozer that civilian contractors use. Sure you do have the Army's D9 armored bulldozers and M9 Earthmover to use if available in a nearby base. APCs prove to be very reliable to use after natural disasters and that can go through or over debris. Or even have a bulldozer blade attached to it as seen with the U.S Army's M113 and French Gendarmerie's VBRG armored car.

So do you think a Heavy APC would use a bulldozer blade to remove all sorts of stuff out of the way so emergency first responders can pass by.
 

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Jul 2016
8,471
USA
#52
The possibility of hacking, destroying or immobilize them can be a worry for commanders and operators. Especially this day-n-age where there are state sponsored hackers. And it'll suck big time if your in a conflict or in a peacekeeping mission where your drones just suddenly fry up during a firefight.

But back to the topic of Heavy APCs. I find it them necessary not just in conflict but other uses like removing debris from a natural disaster or from a riot. Cause I found that the Florida highway patrol used their armored vehicles to removing tree debris after hurricane Frances. Since I know the armored vehicles are used by TRT (Tactical Response Team) swat in orange county as they have BAE Caiman Mraps, Cadillac Gage V-150 armored cars, and Cadillac Gage Ranger APCs. Of course the National Guard and Army corp of engineers use better equipment to remove natural and manmade debris and damaged vehicles out of the way. So i believe or think that a Heavy APC can do the same by removing large and heavy objects that a crane or bulldozer that civilian contractors use. Sure you do have the Army's D9 armored bulldozers and M9 Earthmover to use if available in a nearby base. APCs prove to be very reliable to use after natural disasters and that can go through or over debris. Or even have a bulldozer blade attached to it as seen with the U.S Army's M113 and French Gendarmerie's VBRG armored car.

So do you think a Heavy APC would use a bulldozer blade to remove all sorts of stuff out of the way so emergency first responders can pass by.
Heavy APC is defined by extra armor more than anything. Basically a 3rd-4th Generation MBT retrofitted as an APC. All are going to have weight issues. That means fuel consumption, that means more maintenance, that means likely less mobility, especially over precarious terrain, soft ground, damaged bridges, etc. So I'd never want a heavy APC doing that sort of stuff. The only reason to have a plow would be breach mine fields, push through dirt parapets and barriers, shove out debris from roads, dig hull down positions, etc. Combat stuff.

Cool story: Israel started it, and the US copied in Iraq, but D9 armored bulldozers are absolutely awesome in urban combat. Often for large scale clearing operations, once the outer and inner cordon around an urban center is made, a clearing force with start moving from one part of town, eventually moving through its entirety. Infantry go door to door, entering and clearing every single structure. Homes. Offices. Stores. Barns. Garages. Sheds. Etc. After leaving one they go next door, enter the next. Contact with a defending enemy varies. Sometimes its harassing fire to try to slow or disrupt the clearing, to include IEDs and snipers. Other times ambushes. Other times rigid static defenses similar to Japanese in Iwo Jima or Okinawa. Other times they might try maneuver warfare and fight it out in the streets. When contact is made the clearing teams often bunker down in a nearby cleared structure and begin processing the situation. If they meet resistance inside a structure, and no casualties happen, they exit, contain the building, and bring fire on it. If casualties are taken, they flood the building with more bodies until they extract the wounded, exit, cordon, and bring fire on it. Sometimes thats a supporting IFV in the streets, if they're lucky a supporting tank (though there are rarely many of those to go around). Sometimes they call mortars or artillery on it. Other times they try to use organic weapons, like various sorts of rocket launchers to destroy parts of the building holding the enemy. Precision munitions dropped by aircraft are especially wonderful, a 250 lb small diameter bomb is sometimes exactly what the doctor ordered.

But sometimes its just quicker and more fun to send the D9 in, start knocking down walls, collapse the entire structure, bury the enemy in debris, drive over the debris with a 71 ton bulldozer, and push dirt and powdered concrete into all the crevices. Just bury the lot. Alive, dead, doesn't matter, it's all good. :)
 
Jan 2013
1,207
Anywhere
#53
Heavy APC is defined by extra armor more than anything. Basically a 3rd-4th Generation MBT retrofitted as an APC. All are going to have weight issues. That means fuel consumption, that means more maintenance, that means likely less mobility, especially over precarious terrain, soft ground, damaged bridges, etc. So I'd never want a heavy APC doing that sort of stuff. The only reason to have a plow would be breach mine fields, push through dirt parapets and barriers, shove out debris from roads, dig hull down positions, etc. Combat stuff.

Cool story: Israel started it, and the US copied in Iraq, but D9 armored bulldozers are absolutely awesome in urban combat. Often for large scale clearing operations, once the outer and inner cordon around an urban center is made, a clearing force with start moving from one part of town, eventually moving through its entirety. Infantry go door to door, entering and clearing every single structure. Homes. Offices. Stores. Barns. Garages. Sheds. Etc. After leaving one they go next door, enter the next. Contact with a defending enemy varies. Sometimes its harassing fire to try to slow or disrupt the clearing, to include IEDs and snipers. Other times ambushes. Other times rigid static defenses similar to Japanese in Iwo Jima or Okinawa. Other times they might try maneuver warfare and fight it out in the streets. When contact is made the clearing teams often bunker down in a nearby cleared structure and begin processing the situation. If they meet resistance inside a structure, and no casualties happen, they exit, contain the building, and bring fire on it. If casualties are taken, they flood the building with more bodies until they extract the wounded, exit, cordon, and bring fire on it. Sometimes thats a supporting IFV in the streets, if they're lucky a supporting tank (though there are rarely many of those to go around). Sometimes they call mortars or artillery on it. Other times they try to use organic weapons, like various sorts of rocket launchers to destroy parts of the building holding the enemy. Precision munitions dropped by aircraft are especially wonderful, a 250 lb small diameter bomb is sometimes exactly what the doctor ordered.

But sometimes its just quicker and more fun to send the D9 in, start knocking down walls, collapse the entire structure, bury the enemy in debris, drive over the debris with a 71 ton bulldozer, and push dirt and powdered concrete into all the crevices. Just bury the lot. Alive, dead, doesn't matter, it's all good. :)
Ah I see :)
Only D9 armored Bulldozers and M9 Combat Earth movers are better of removing such heavy debris. Does kinda make sense of all things. And having a heavy apc would have a lot of fuel consumption. But to do only combat stuff like the ones you mention would make alot of sense since if you have a collapsed building that is in the way. then a heavy apc with a plow could be the way to go. Plus it'll be heavy as hell if you bring it to an urban area like like let's say Orlando or New Orleans where it'll just destroy the whole road by its own tracks. Sadly I don't know if the national guard has D9's and M9's since I only know the army has it in base. But cool thing the Jordanians have a Dawsar heavy apc, which is an upgraded and modified temsah. Which still uses the Centurion tank hulls and still have spare parts of it. Which I thought is pretty cool.

 

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