Heirs of the "Byzantine" Empire?

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,806
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#1
As we all know, on 29 May 1453 the Ottomans captured Constantinople, Emperor Constantine XI was killed, and the "Byzantine" Empire, a continuation of the genuine original Roman Empire and Roman Republic that had been founded two thousand years before - came to an end.

Since many thousands of persons alive in 1453 have descendants that can be traced today, one might assume that most persons who could have claimed in 1453 to be the rightful heir of Constantine XI - and thus were more prominent than most persons alive in 1483 - will have descendants that can be traced today

So who is the rightful heir today of Constantine XI? Who do you nominate?
 
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Jun 2016
368
istanbul
#2
Very controversial issue. I can give you the Ottoman perspective. According to some historians, Constantine's nephews were to be the next Emperors, since Constantine didn't have sons. Those nephews were the Ottoman Mesih Pasha and the Ottoman Khass Murad Pasha. Their descendants are now most probably Turkish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesih_Pasha


Apparently some other parts of Palaiologos dynasty moved to Italy. Some of them claimed to be the heirs of the dynasty.
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,806
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#7
I will start with a pure genealogical claim.

Emperor Constantine XI (1405-1453) had no children.

His younger brothers Demitrios (c. 1407-1470) and Thomas (c.1409-1465) Palaiologos ruled as Despots in the Morea. They quarreled too much to chose either of them as the next emperor, and in 1460 the Ottomans conquered the Morea.

Demetrios lived in the Ottoman empire and his daughter Helena Palaiologina (1442-1470) may have entered the harem of Sultan Mehmed II, but it has been said Mehmed feared she might poison him and didn't take her.

Thomas Palaiologos moved to Rome after the fall of the Morea and was recognized as the rightful Emperor. His elder son Andreas (1453-1502) succeeded as titular Emperor and died without any known children, though some legitimate or illegitimate ones have been alleged. The younger brother Manuel Palaiologos (1455-1512) eventually returned to Constantinople and sold his rights to the throne to Sultan Mehmed II. His older son John died young, and his younger son Andreas became a Muslim.

Thomas Palaiologos had a younger daughter Zoe/Sophia Palaiologina (c.1440/1449-1503 who famously married Ivan III the Great, Grand Prince of Moscow in 1472. Their last known descendant as Maria Vladimirovna of Starista (c. 1550-1610) wife of King Magnus of Livonia (1540-1583).

But the older daughter of Thomas Palaiologos was Helena Palaiologina (1431-1473) who married Lazar Brankovic, Despot of Serbia, in 1446. Their eldest daughter Jelena/Maria (c.1447-1500) married King Stephen Tomasevic of Bosnia in 1459 but had no known children. Their youngest daughter Jerina married Gjon Kastrioti II (1456-1502), the son of Skanderbeg, who became Duke of San Pietro in Galatina in 1485.

The middle daughter of Helena and Lazar, Milica Brankovic (died 1464) married Leonardo III Tocco in 1463. Their son Carlo III Tocco (1464-1518) was the titular ruler of Epirus (Arta) and Zakynthos. Carlo III was the father of Leonard IV Tocco, father of Franceso di Tocco, Lord of Refrancore (died 1598), father of Leonardo V di Tocco, Despot of Arta, Prince of Acaja (1591-1641), father of Antonio di Tocco, Prince of Acaja (died 1678), father of Carlo di Tocco, 3rd Prince of Montemiletto (died 1701), father of Leonardo di Tocco, count of Monataperto (1698-1776), father of Restaino di Tocco Cantalmo-Stuart, 5th Prince of Montemiletto (1730-1796), father of Carlo 6th Prince of Montemiletto (1756-1824), father of Francesco, 7th Prince of Montemiletto (1790-1877), father of Carlo, 8th Prince of Montemiletto (1827-1888), the last of the lineage.

http://geneall.net/en/name/516513/carlo-di-tocco-cantelmo-stuart-6th-prince-of-montemiletto/

William Miller, in The Latins in the Levant: the history of Frankish Greece (1204-1566) 1908, pages 452-455, and 485-489 mentions the Palaiologous and Tocco heirs of the "Byzantine" Empire. He says the Toccos claimed the Despotate of Arta but eventually started to claim the Principality of Achaia instead:

...The family has only recently become extinct, but a room in the palace still contains a collection of the portraits of the former palatine counts of Cephalonia, while the family titles and the sacred foot have passed to Carlo Capece Galeotto, D
uke of Regina, the head of the Neapolitan legitimists...
https://archive.org/stream/latinsinlevanta00millgoog#page/n519/mode/2up

Carlo Capece Galeota (1824-1908), Duke of Regina, etc., Prince of Montemiletto and Achaia, etc. was the son of Francesco (1783-1838), Duke of Regina, etc, and Maddalena di Tocco Cantalmo Stuart, daughter of Carlo, 6th Prince of Montemiletto. His daughter Maria Maddalena (1859-1933) married Giuseppi Carelli.

http://www.nobili-napoletani.it/Capece-Galeota.htm

Carlo, 6th Prince of Montemiletto, had a daughter Teresa (1781-1832) who married Guiseppi Serra, 5th Duke of Cassano (1771-1837), and they were parents of Luigi Serra, 6th Duke of Cassano (1810-1883), father of Francesco Serra, 7th Duke of Cassano (1843-1917), father of Guiseppi Serra, 8th duke of Cassano (1867-1918) who died childless and was succeeded by his brother Luigi Serra, 9th Duke of Cassano (1868-1935), father of Francesco Serra, 10th Duke of Cassano (1914-1998), father of Luigi Serra, 11th Duke of Cassano (born 1939).

Luigi Serra duke of Cassano, marquess of Rivadebro e Serra, * 1939 | Geneall.net

Alternate history.com has a thread "Recent male line descendants of Byzantine dynasties" that has a post by January First-of-May dated March 30, 2014 giving the succession of Tocco and Serra heirs. But the Capece Galeota heirs from 1888-1933 are omitted.

Recent male line descendants of Byzantine dynasties | Alternate History Discussion

Schwennicke, Detlev (1978–1995), Europäische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, Neue Folge ("European Family Trees: Family Trees for the History of European States, New Series"), Marburg, Germany: J. A. Stargardt - does have pages with the Tocco family tree. As I remember a number of daughters married other families of the Neapolitan nobility. The online index puts the Tocco family in Volume III, tables 594-596.

T - Vittorio Klostermann ? Philosophie, Recht, Literatur, Bibliothek

So as far as I can tell, at the present time Luigi Serra, 11th Duke of Cassano (born 1939), is the rightful heir by genealogy of Thomas Palaiologos, who was accepted in Western Europe as the titular "Byzantine" Emperor in exile.
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,342
Spain
#8
I will start with a pure genealogical claim.

Emperor Constantine XI (1405-1453) had no children.

His younger brothers Demitrios (c. 1407-1470) and Thomas (c.1409-1465) Palaiologos ruled as Despots in the Morea. They quarreled too much to chose either of them as the next emperor, and in 1460 the Ottomans conquered the Morea.

Demetrios lived in the Ottoman empire and his daughter Helena Palaiologina (1442-1470) may have entered the harem of Sultan Mehmed II, but it has been said Mehmed feared she might poison him and didn't take her.

Thomas Palaiologos moved to Rome after the fall of the Morea and was recognized as the rightful Emperor. His elder son Andreas (1453-1502) succeeded as titular Emperor and died without any known children, though some legitimate or illegitimate ones have been alleged. The younger brother Manuel Palaiologos (1455-1512) eventually returned to Constantinople and sold his rights to the throne to Sultan Mehmed II. His older son John died young, and his younger son Andreas became a Muslim.

Thomas Palaiologos had a younger daughter Zoe/Sophia Palaiologina (c.1440/1449-1503 who famously married Ivan III the Great, Grand Prince of Moscow in 1472. Their last known descendant as Maria Vladimirovna of Starista (c. 1550-1610) wife of King Magnus of Livonia (1540-1583).

But the older daughter of Thomas Palaiologos was Helena Palaiologina (1431-1473) who married Lazar Brankovic, Despot of Serbia, in 1446. Their eldest daughter Jelena/Maria (c.1447-1500) married King Stephen Tomasevic of Bosnia in 1459 but had no known children. Their youngest daughter Jerina married Gjon Kastrioti II (1456-1502), the son of Skanderbeg, who became Duke of San Pietro in Galatina in 1485.

The middle daughter of Helena and Lazar, Milica Brankovic (died 1464) married Leonardo III Tocco in 1463. Their son Carlo III Tocco (1464-1518) was the titular ruler of Epirus (Arta) and Zakynthos. Carlo III was the father of Leonard IV Tocco, father of Franceso di Tocco, Lord of Refrancore (died 1598), father of Leonardo V di Tocco, Despot of Arta, Prince of Acaja (1591-1641), father of Antonio di Tocco, Prince of Acaja (died 1678), father of Carlo di Tocco, 3rd Prince of Montemiletto (died 1701), father of Leonardo di Tocco, count of Monataperto (1698-1776), father of Restaino di Tocco Cantalmo-Stuart, 5th Prince of Montemiletto (1730-1796), father of Carlo 6th Prince of Montemiletto (1756-1824), father of Francesco, 7th Prince of Montemiletto (1790-1877), father of Carlo, 8th Prince of Montemiletto (1827-1888), the last of the lineage.

Carlo di Tocco Cantelmo Stuart, 6th prince of Montemiletto, * 1756 | Geneall.net

William Miller, in The Latins in the Levant: the history of Frankish Greece (1204-1566) 1908, pages 452-455, and 485-489 mentions the Palaiologous and Tocco heirs of the "Byzantine" Empire. He says the Toccos claimed the Despotate of Arta but eventually started to claim the Principality of Achaia instead:



https://archive.org/stream/latinsinlevanta00millgoog#page/n519/mode/2up

Carlo Capece Galeota (1824-1908), Duke of Regina, etc., Prince of Montemiletto and Achaia, etc. was the son of Francesco (1783-1838), Duke of Regina, etc, and Maddalena di Tocco Cantalmo Stuart, daughter of Carlo, 6th Prince of Montemiletto. His daughter Maria Maddalena (1859-1933) married Giuseppi Carelli.

Famiglia Capece Galeota

Carlo, 6th Prince of Montemiletto, had a daughter Teresa (1781-1832) who married Guiseppi Serra, 5th Duke of Cassano (1771-1837), and they were parents of Luigi Serra, 6th Duke of Cassano (1810-1883), father of Francesco Serra, 7th Duke of Cassano (1843-1917), father of Guiseppi Serra, 8th duke of Cassano (1867-1918) who died childless and was succeeded by his brother Luigi Serra, 9th Duke of Cassano (1868-1935), father of Francesco Serra, 10th Duke of Cassano (1914-1998), father of Luigi Serra, 11th Duke of Cassano (born 1939).

Luigi Serra duke of Cassano, marquess of Rivadebro e Serra, * 1939 | Geneall.net

Alternate history.com has a thread "Recent male line descendants of Byzantine dynasties" that has a post by January First-of-May dated March 30, 2014 giving the succession of Tocco and Serra heirs. But the Capece Galeota heirs from 1888-1933 are omitted.

Recent male line descendants of Byzantine dynasties | Alternate History Discussion

Schwennicke, Detlev (1978–1995), Europäische Stammtafeln: Stammtafeln zur Geschichte der Europäischen Staaten, Neue Folge ("European Family Trees: Family Trees for the History of European States, New Series"), Marburg, Germany: J. A. Stargardt - does have pages with the Tocco family tree. As I remember a number of daughters married other families of the Neapolitan nobility. The online index puts the Tocco family in Volume III, tables 594-596.

T - Vittorio Klostermann ? Philosophie, Recht, Literatur, Bibliothek

So as far as I can tell, at the present time Luigi Serra, 11th Duke of Cassano (born 1939), is the rightful heir by genealogy of Thomas Palaiologos, who was accepted in Western Europe as the titular "Byzantine" Emperor in exile.
Great post, thanks a lot, unfortunatly

You ignore His elder son Andreas (1453-1502) succeeded as titular Emperor and died without any known children yielded the title to the Catholic Monarchs for them and offspring.
That he gave the title BASILEÍA TON ROMANION to the Kings of Spain...everybody can read.. in Spainish, French, English etc etc


De retour en Occident, André vend ses droits héréditaires d'abord au roi de France Charles VIII (1494) puis aux souverains espagnols Ferdinand d'Aragon et Isabelle de Castille (1502).

Andreas died a pauper during 1502, in spite of having sold his titles and royal and imperial rights again to Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile

Andreas verkaufte seine Titel erneut, diesmal an die spanischen Monarchen Ferdinand II. von Aragon und Isabella von Kastilien.

В начале 1502 г. он подписал новое соглашение, передававшее все его права испанским монархам Фердинанду и Изабелле

Philip VI is the only Emperor of Byzantium today. And he can prove it at any court.. from April 7th, 1502
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,806
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#10
Does blood matter that much? If someone has the ability to restore the Empire that person should rule it.
Yes, I agree.

But since nobody knows if that will ever happen, let alone in which decade, century, or millennium, nor what future person might restore the "Byzantine" empire, all we could do would be to guess that it might be someone named, for example, Ottfrid Demuth in 2514, or Wang Li in 5452, or Chandra Singh in 4645, or any of an infinite number of possible names and dates.

Besides, as you may remember there were often one or more co emperors along with the ruling emperor. So if the eastern Roman Empire is restored in the future it might have a ruling emperor (more or less equivalent to an American President or a British Prime Minister) and one or more reigning co emperors (more or less equivalent to modern symbolic monarchs) who will be the heirs of one or more past dynasties.

And since it might be inconvenient to have a hundred or so co emperors being the rival heirs of two dozen imperial dynasties, it might be a good idea to identify as many heirs as possible in case someone ever wants to form an Association of Claimants to the Roman Empire, one of its functions being encouraging intermarriage between heirs and thus the combination of many rival claims into fewer ones.
 
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