Hey guys ,I have same question about Knight Templar.

Jun 2019
13
Taiwan
According to the great worth of Templar left down and disappear, is there any possible that the group of order continue as a group after they has been disbanded ? I heard some theory assume the order of Christ are the successor of the Templar , is that possible ? And is there any strong evidence can prove the connect between the order of Templar and Christ ?
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,185
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Legally [I'd say canonically] the Order of the "Pauperes commilitones Christi templique Salomonis" [simply "Order of the Temple"] had erased by the Papal authority, but this didn't impede to single Monarchs and Lord to create other orders to welcome the members of the dismantled one.

In not a few cases, the Knights who didn't get imprisoned and condemned joined other existing orders [overall the Hospital which acquired a good part of the estates of the Temple].

Regarding Portugal, it's historically true that the King of that country decided to create a new Order, in 1318CE, where Portuguese Templars carried on with their common existence. Pope John XXII conceded to the Portuguese King the possibility to transfer the estates of the Order of the Temple in Portugal to the new order [it was 1323CE].
 
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Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,807
As for the OP question – to not be coy about it – it's based on a French 1960's surreal arts project, that got a lot of play in the French press at the time, and then in the 1980's was picked up by a bunch of British writers with a punchy style, active imaginations, and not too much concern for critical acumen, who wrote a bestseller "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail". New lease of life was provided in the OO's by Dan Brown's novel (later film) "The da Vinci Code", which made the art-project-conspiracy-theory its centerpiece (and Brown apparently believes in it).

It's a fantastic lark. Somehow the Templars was supposedly just a front of an even deeper inner circle of custodians of the secret that the Holy Gral, was really the Holy Blood, i.e. the bloodline of direct descendants of the Christ and the Magdalene, come to France with the Magdalene (landed at the port of Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer in the Camargue according to legend), resurfaced with Clovis as the Merovingian kings, only to go underground for 1500 years (but in the 1960's supposedly represented by the mythomaniac Pierre Plantard, claiming to be both the descendant of Clovis and Christ).

It's an art project that really emanated from the French surrealist circle of "pataphysics", as introduced by the playwright and novelist Alfred Jarry around 1900, best now for plays "Father Ubu" and "King Ubu". His latterday followers are organized in what's called "la collège pataphysique" in Paris. One of the central texts of pataphysics is "the Saying of Dr Faustroll", and a key precept is that "The conspiracy theory is the highest form of pataphysics".

Consequently IF you keep track of which writers and academics have been or are part of this self-appointed college, you start to notice their gleeful obsession with conspiracy theories.
Best example: Umberto Eco's novel "Foucault's Pendulum". It's a novel about a made-up historical conspiracy theory being believed and taking on a life of its own, i.e. EXACTLY the situation with the theory of a secret order within the templar order, guarding an historical secret... Eco at one point even has one of his protagnists working on the novel's conspiracy theory rattle off, and give the reference, to the British bestseller "Holy Blood and Holy Grail".
And Eco of course was a member of the collège pataphysique. Another such member, a kind of founding figure for it, the conspiracy about "the holy blood", AND featured on all lists of supposed Grand Masters of the inner circle of the Templars, was the surrealist artist and film-make Jean Cocteau. Never mind how Newton, Boyle, da Vinci et al. renaissance characters supposedly also were (not a shred of evidence) – with Cocteau we are on firmer ground. AND since Cocteau decorated a church in London with the exact iconography of the "holy blood" conspiracy in the 1960's, we have the choice of either assuming that By Golly? It's All True, and Cocteau semaphoring "hidden messages" in that church proves it – or, really, it proves Cocteau was in on the joke... (just his kind of thing btw).

And who knows, maybe I'm selling Dan Brown short here – he could be as much in on the joke as Cocteau? Part of the joke is to keep it going, and maintain a straight face at all times.

And as far as conspiracy theories goes – and considering what a nasty bunch they can be in actual politics – the Templar "Christ's bloodline" conspiracy the pataphysics and allied jokers has sent into the world has actually been very carefully crafted for NO political usefulness whatsoever (another principle at work). It's fascinating, and so nutty it can't really be co-opted for any kind of modern and contemporary political use. (Looking at its anatomy, they can be assumed to have fascinatedly looked at the nuttier occult aspects of Himmler and the SS, and gone out of their way to make something at least equally fascinating, but shorn of the nasty side of politics).

Best treatment post-Dan Brown I can think is actually a British docu hosted by Tony Robinson (Baldrick):
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,185
Italy, Lago Maggiore
And the internal Order in the Order would be the notorious "Priory of Sion" [with all probability invented by Plantard and his buddies, with even documents preserved in the French National Library, if I remember well].
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,807
And the internal Order in the Order would be the notorious "Priory of Sion" [with all probability invented by Plantard and his buddies, with even documents preserved in the French National Library, if I remember well].
Exactly. :)
 
Jun 2019
13
Taiwan
First able thank you guys for replying me . However ,I think there is a misunderstand in the last sentence “And is there any strong evidence can prove the connect between the order of Templar and Christ ?” the Christ is not mean the God , my meaning is the order of Christ , sorry for that mistake . I just curious about the prove of connection between those orders.
The reason why I ask for those questions is not only the passion to history but also I want to figure out how reality on the documentary of history channel named “buried : Knight Templar and the holy grail” which I saw recently , because they claim they has found the prove shows the order of Christ are the sessour of Templar and even state that Templar are one of the founder of Portugal , because I have no idea about it , and i want to know about the real history ,so Im searching the connection between those two order.
 
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Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
5,495
Netherlands
First able thank you guys for replying me . However ,I think there is a misunderstand in the last sentence “And is there any strong evidence can prove the connect between the order of Templar and Christ ?” the Christ is not mean the God , my meaning is the order of Christ , sorry for that mistake . I just curious about the prove of connection between those orders.
The reason why I ask for those questions is not only the passion to history but also I want to figure out how reality on the documentary of history channel named “buried : Knight Templar and the holy grail” which I saw recently , because they claim they has found the prove shows the order of Christ are the sessour of Templar and even state that Templar are one of the founder of Portugal , because I have no idea about it , and i want to know about the real history ,so Im searching the connection between those two order.
Be very alert. None of those theories have any real evidence. It is all interpretation at best.
Think CCP about the emperors.
 
Jul 2019
113
Pale Blue Dot - Moonshine Quadrant
Whatever else they may or may not have been, they were very rare in the sense that they were honest bankers; they practiced 100% reserve banking - not fractional reserve banking which causes bank runs, mucks up the price of money (interest rates), and distorts the capital structure of an economy.

In his Money, Bank Credit, and Economic Cycles Jesús Huerta de Soto notes:

The fall of the Roman Empire meant the disappearance of most of its trade and the feudalization of economic and social relationships. The enormous reduction in trade and in the division of labor dealt a definitive blow to financial activities, especially banking. The effects of this reduction lasted several centuries. Only monasteries, secure centers of economic and social development, could serve as guardians of economic resources. It is important to mention the activity in this field of the Templars, whose order was founded in 1119 in Jerusalem to protect pilgrims. The Templars possessed significant financial resources obtained as plunder from their military campaigns and as bequests from feudal princes and lords. As they were active internationally (they had more than nine thousand centers and two headquarters) and were a military and religious order, the Templars were safe custodians for deposits and had great moral authority, earning them the trust of the people. Understandably, they began to receive both regular and irregular deposits from individuals, to whom they charged a fee for safekeeping. The Templars also carried out transfers of funds, charging a set amount for transportation and protection. Moreover, they made loans of their own resources and did not violate the safekeeping principle on demand deposits.

In a footnote de Soto points out that Jules Piquet (Des banquiers au Moyen Age: Les Templiers, Étude de leurs opérations financièrs) credits the Templars with the beginnings of double-entry bookkeeping and even a primitive form of check clearing. De Soto, however, is not fully convinced and calls the Templars direct predecessors of double-entry bookkeeping.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,972
Portugal
First able thank you guys for replying me . However ,I think there is a misunderstand in the last sentence “And is there any strong evidence can prove the connect between the order of Templar and Christ ?” the Christ is not mean the God , my meaning is the order of Christ , sorry for that mistake . I just curious about the prove of connection between those orders.

The reason why I ask for those questions is not only the passion to history but also I want to figure out how reality on the documentary of history channel named “buried : Knight Templar and the holy grail” which I saw recently , because they claim they has found the prove shows the order of Christ are the sessour of Templar and even state that Templar are one of the founder of Portugal , because I have no idea about it , and i want to know about the real history ,so Im searching the connection between those two order.
That part of your doubt was answered.

With the dissolution of the Templars their assets and many of the members (the ones who weren’t convicted) went to the Hospitaliers. With the exception in the kingdoms of Portugal and Aragon. There the assets and the members formed new orders, obviously with Papal approval. Those orders were the Order of Montesa, in Aragon, and the Order of Christ, in Portugal. I think (not sure) that in Scotland something similar was made or tried.

So, if you are searching for a connection between the Order of the Temple in Portugal, and the Order of Christ, in Portugal, you already found it. It is real history, not some sort of conspiration. Note that in those countries the Order of the Temple was quite important in the process that we know as Reconquista.

For this we can read Alan Demourger: https://www.amazon.fr/Vie-mort-lordre-du-Temple/dp/2020104822

Or an outstanding work, free and online Work, about Aragon, by Alan J. Forey, at LIBRO: The Templars in the Corona de Aragn -- Master Page

If you read Portuguese I can recommend a doctoral thesis about the Order of Christ.

Be very alert. None of those theories have any real evidence. It is all interpretation at best.

Think CCP about the emperors.
The creation of the two new orders isn’t a theory. It is a well-known.

***

EDIT:

Anyway, for the basics we can always take a look to Wikipedia, and begin from there:

Order of Christ (Portugal) - Wikipedia

Order of Montesa - Wikipedia (link already posted by Larrey)
 
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