Hindu rajput persecution of buddhism.

Dec 2018
26
Bharat
#11
Outright evidence of Hindu persecution of Buddhists is hard to come by, because Indians didn't write history. Even evidence for the Muslim persecution of Hindus and the Portuguese Inquisition in Goa come from Muslim and Portuguese sources respectively. There is hardly anything from the Hindu side. So historians use conjecture to infer Hindu persecution of Buddhists based on indirect evidence, and the ambiance of the times.

For example, Historian Sreedhara Menon writes in book 'A survey of Kerala History', about the time of 8th - 9th centuries when Kerala was Hinduised by foreign Aryan missionaries:

"The new Aryan missionaries devoted all their attention to propaganda against Buddhism and Jainism whose hold on the people was the main stumbling block to the success of their ideology and before long these religions lost their following among the people. It is also possible that the Aryan missionaries resorted to a deliberate policy of destroying Buddhist Viharas and images. The broken and damaged Buddhist images obtained from places such as Karumadi and Pallikal, perhaps, bear testimony to this. ----" (p.105).
Omg, foreign Aryan missionaries thats some leftist bull crap,
 
Likes: prashanth
Apr 2018
1,485
Mythical land.
#13
Outright evidence of Hindu persecution of Buddhists is hard to come by, because Indians didn't write history. Even evidence for the Muslim persecution of Hindus and the Portuguese Inquisition in Goa come from Muslim and Portuguese sources respectively. There is hardly anything from the Hindu side. So historians use conjecture to infer Hindu persecution of Buddhists based on indirect evidence, and the ambiance of the times.
its incorrect to say indians didn't wrote history,kavis in empires used to write history and deeds of kings,harishchandra's kavi is a good example of this.
rajputs and other also had a tradition of writting history but it was more in poetic form than not.

Lalitaditya's court also had a official historian IIRC.
I would agree that more focus was given on writting dramas and other texts then what was really occurring in that time,this is why we have to rely on foreign tourist or ambassadors to know about india's past.
And its incorrect to simply presume persecution when there are several examples of hindus and buddhist having only intellectual rivalry,which was the case throughout classical india.


For example, Historian Sreedhara Menon writes in book 'A survey of Kerala History', about the time of 8th - 9th centuries when Kerala was Hinduised by foreign Aryan missionaries:

"The new Aryan missionaries devoted all their attention to propaganda against Buddhism and Jainism whose hold on the people was the main stumbling block to the success of their ideology and before long these religions lost their following among the people. It is also possible that the Aryan missionaries resorted to a deliberate policy of destroying Buddhist Viharas and images. The broken and damaged Buddhist images obtained from places such as Karumadi and Pallikal, perhaps, bear testimony to this. ----" (p.105).
You know,i am looking for something concrete,even this quote at best is a speculation based on nothing but some broken images,which does not tell us how they were broken and who broke them.
and as a side note,i tried to search this but seems like this book is quite rare,can you give any link for this?
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,517
USA
#15
----- as a side note,i tried to search this but seems like this book is quite rare,can you give any link for this?
You may google with 'books by Sreedhara Menon' etc. to see if the book is available on line for purchase. From what I know it is available in fine book stores in Kerala. I got mine by asking one who went to Kerala for a visit to buy one for me.

The book gives info on how Hinduism came to Kerala, imposition of caste system on a then casteless society, its devastating effects and so on. Hinduism existed in uncorrupted form in Kerala till the modern times, without having any of the diluting effects of Muslim conquests that happened elsewhere in India. As a result, its Hindu history could be taken as an example of how a whole Hindu India would have been if Muslims never invaded. Vivekananda famously called Kerala a madhouse of castes, but he was from a Muslim conquered area.
 
Last edited:
Apr 2018
1,485
Mythical land.
#16
You may google with 'books by Sreedhara Menon' etc. to see if the book is available on line for purchase. From what I know it is available in fine book stores in Kerala. I got mine by asking one who went to Kerala for a visit to buy one for me.

The book gives info on how Hinduism came to Kerala, imposition of caste system on a then casteless society, its devastating effects and so on. Hinduism existed in uncorrupted form in Kerala till the modern times, without having any of the diluting effects of Muslim conquests that happened elsewhere in India. As a result, its Hindu history could be taken as an example of how a whole Hindu India would have been if Muslims never invaded. Vivekananda famously called Kerala a madhouse of castes, but he was from a Muslim conquered area.
how can any advanced non tribal society be casteless?
any civilized society is bound to be divided on socio and economic terms,were keralites hunter gatherers before arrival of hinduism in kerala?


Civilization is defined as such because how prominent this feature this is in imperial states throughout history.



A civilization or civilisation (see English spelling differences) is any complex society characterized by urban development, social stratification imposed by a cultural elite, symbolic systems of communication (for example, writing systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment
Civilization - Wikipedia


And kerala's history is just that.
It can't be used as example of what would happened elsewhere in india due to difference in geography,tradition and culture.
even before muslims,hindus in south practiced different hinduism than hindus in north.

And thanks for the book tip,i will see reviews and read it if there is avaibility online or offline.
 
Mar 2012
4,276
#17
It's quite clear from Tibetan and Chinese sources that Indian Buddhist monks were still coming to these lands well into the 16th century. Its probably not until the 17th century that Buddhism completely dissapeared from India. The 7th Panchan lama tried to find Buddhism in India, but other than some sights, he found no practitioners.
 
Apr 2018
1,485
Mythical land.
#18
It's quite clear from Tibetan and Chinese sources that Indian Buddhist monks were still coming to these lands well into the 16th century. Its probably not until the 17th century that Buddhism completely dissapeared from India. The 7th Panchan lama tried to find Buddhism in India, but other than some sights, he found no practitioners.
can you give any detail about from where these monks originally from in india?
cause AFAIK akbar was one the greastest ruler of india in 16th century yet even when he organized whole religion fest,no buddhist monk came to his court.

And do these monks mention anything about discrimination or persecution in india aside from islamic empires?
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,517
USA
#19
how can any advanced non tribal society be casteless?
any civilized society is bound to be divided on socio and economic terms,were keralites hunter gatherers before arrival of hinduism in kerala?

Civilization is defined as such because how prominent this feature this is in imperial states throughout history.

A civilization or civilisation (see English spelling differences) is any complex society characterized by urban development, social stratification imposed by a cultural elite, symbolic systems of communication (for example, writing systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment
Civilization - Wikipedia


And kerala's history is just that.
It can't be used as example of what would happened elsewhere in india due to difference in geography,tradition and culture.
even before muslims,hindus in south practiced different hinduism than hindus in north.

And thanks for the book tip,i will see reviews and read it if there is avaibility online or offline.
What Prof Menon was saying in the book was Kerala had religions like Buddhism, Jainism, and Christianity, but was casteless before the arrival of the Brahmin missionaries. Get and read the book.

Are you saying that all civilized societies had Hindu style caste system? If you don't have the caste system, you are a hunter gatherer? Kerala was hunter gatherer because they didn't have caste system? You are confusing between the usual class system and the unique Hindu caste system. They are two different social stratifications.
 
Apr 2018
1,485
Mythical land.
#20
What Prof Menon was saying in the book was Kerala had religions like Buddhism, Jainism, and Christianity, but was casteless before the arrival of the Brahmin missionaries. Get and read the book.

Are you saying that all civilized societies had Hindu style caste system? If you don't have the caste system, you are a hunter gatherer? Kerala was hunter gatherer because they didn't have caste system? You are confusing between the usual class system and the unique Hindu caste system. They are two different social stratifications.
Not hindu caste system but any caste system i.e. social and economic stratification.
hindus at worst would have solidified this already existing system(which too is doubtful in my opinion as fluidity in job is seen in various varna throughout indian history)

And when did these brahmin missionaries arrive in kerala,can you give the date Mr.menon provides?or any approximation?

Also one the greatest hindu scholars of india was from kerala(adi shankaracharya) so i am very much interested in this aspect of history.

and any civilized society is bound of have social and economic stratification.
 

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