Hindu rajput persecution of buddhism.

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,612
USA
#22
And when did these brahmin missionaries arrive in kerala,can you give the date Mr.menon provides?or any approximation?

Also one the greatest hindu scholars of india was from kerala(adi shankaracharya) so i am very much interested in this aspect of history.
As per his book, in the 8th century the Aryanization of Kerala reached its climax with a major batch of Brahmin immigrants turning the country Hindu by the 9th century. Brahmin missionaries were trickling in as scouts looking for conversion opportunities following the paths taken by Buddhists and Jains missionaries starting even in 3rd century BC.

Sankaracharya (788 - 820 AD) was born in Kerala during this period, and is covered in the book but not very much since it is a history book.
 
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Apr 2018
1,562
Mythical land.
#23
As per his book, in the 8th century the Aryanization of Kerala reached its climax with a major batch of Brahmin immigrants turning the country Hindu by the 9th century. Brahmin missionaries were trickling in as scouts looking for conversion opportunities following the paths taken by Buddhists and Jains missionaries starting even in 3rd century BC.

Sankaracharya (788 - 820 AD) was born in Kerala during this period, and is covered in the book but not very much since it is a history book.
Very interesting, thanks for info.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,306
New Delhi, India
#24
Hindus at worst would have solidified this already existing system (which too is doubtful in my opinion as fluidity in job is seen in various varna throughout indian history).
Actually 'caste' system is a very Hindu, indigenous and ancient system, don't blame barhmins for it. It existed even before the coming of Aryans. The Aryan system was varna. Between the coming of Aryans (Circa 1,500 BC) and the beginning of the Christian Era, the two were mixed which solidified during the Gupta empire time.

It was so ingrained that Sankara agreed with it, but his philosophy, 'advaita', was against it. That is why he bowed to the Chandala. Kandal has his biases because of religious difference. Kandal is not interested in history but in denigrating Hinduism and brahmins.
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,306
New Delhi, India
#25
You may google with 'books by Sreedhara Menon' etc. to see if the book is available on line for purchase. .. As a result, its Hindu history could be taken as an example of how a whole Hindu India would have been if Muslims never invaded. Vivekananda famously called Kerala a madhouse of castes, but he was from a Muslim conquered area.
Sridhara Menon was a Fulbright and Smith Mundt scholar, so I can understand his biases. It does not matter what all important positions the socialistic anti-Hindu Nehru government or the Communist Kerala government gave him. If Kerala was a mad-house of castes even in Sankara's time, then clearly the system was very old. The question is when Aryan influence arrived in Kerala?

Even during the Firswt Sangam period, Aryan influcne had already arrived in Kerala, otherwise they would not have been worshiping Indra and Maruts. They already had a mix of two religionsiva and Kali from the indigenous steam and Indra and Maruts from the Aryan stream. I quote:
"The religion of the ancient Tamils closely follow roots of nature worship and some elements of it can also be found in Tamil Shaiva Siddhanta traditions. In the ancient Sangam literature, Sivan was the supreme God, and Murugan was the one celebrated by the masses; both of them were sung as deified Tamil poets ascending the Koodal academy. The Tamil landscape was classified into five categories, thinais, based on the mood, the season and the land. Tolkappiyam, one of the oldest grammatical works in Tamil mentions that each of these thinai had an associated deity such as Kottravai (Mother goddess i.e. Kali) and Sevvael (Murugan) in Kurinji (the hills), Thirumal (Maayon) in Mullai (the forests), Vendhan (Wanji-ko or Seyyon i.e. Indra) in Marutham (the plains i.e. Vayu), and Kadaloan (Varuna) in the Neithal (the coasts and the seas). Other ancient works refer to Maayon (Maal) and Vaali."
Sangam period - Wikipedia
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,306
New Delhi, India
#26
Zanis, there was hardly any persecution of Buddhist and Jains in India barring exceptions. Even the Buddhist considered themselves as Astikas. They were just different sects in Hinduism for a long time. Such mention in Buddhist and Jain books is because of the thinning of their followers and drying up of finances. In the end, it fell upon Hindu kings to support the Buddhist and Jain monks, temples and educational institutions. Nalanda is an example of that which survived till its destruction in the 1,200 CE , very much later than the extinction of Buddhist influence in Bihar. In many native Hindu Indian states, the Chief Minister was usually a Jain.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,332
India
#27
As per his book, in the 8th century the Aryanization of Kerala reached its climax with a major batch of Brahmin immigrants turning the country Hindu by the 9th century. Brahmin missionaries were trickling in as scouts looking for conversion opportunities following the paths taken by Buddhists and Jains missionaries starting even in 3rd century BC.

Sankaracharya (788 - 820 AD) was born in Kerala during this period, and is covered in the book but not very much since it is a history book.
The archaeological finding regarding Jainism and Buddhism are very rare in both Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Only Karnataka in South India had a major presence of Jainism. So, Kerala converting back to Hinduism is most like a bogus theory.
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,612
USA
#28
Actually 'caste' system is a very Hindu, indigenous and ancient system, don't blame barhmins for it. It existed even before the coming of Aryans. The Aryan system was varna. Between the coming of Aryans (Circa 1,500 BC) and the beginning of the Christian Era, the two were mixed which solidified during the Gupta empire time.

It was so ingrained that Sankara agreed with it, but his philosophy, 'advaita', was against it. That is why he bowed to the Chandala. Kandal has his biases because of religious difference. Kandal is not interested in history but in denigrating Hinduism and brahmins.
Sridhara Menon was a Fulbright and Smith Mundt scholar, so I can understand his biases. It does not matter what all important positions the socialistic anti-Hindu Nehru government or the Communist Kerala government gave him. -----
Are you saying that those who critique Hinduism and its priestly caste Brahmins are either non-Hindus or western educated scholars or Communists? Sounds like some racist Nazi Nuremburg or Manusmrithi rule.
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,306
New Delhi, India
#29
The archaeological finding regarding Jainism and Buddhism are very rare in both Tamil Nadu and Kerala. Only Karnataka in South India had a major presence of Jainism. So, Kerala converting back to Hinduism is most like a bogus theory.
IMHO, Jainism is tough, asks you to abstain from many things. And Buddhist scholars went on a scholarly hyperdrive making Buddhism unintelligible for common people. Both were fairly popular at one time, but IMHO, these are the reasons which caused the shift to Hinduism. As I said, barring exceptions, they were considered two more 'panthas' (ways, roads) among the many in Hinduism which declined. At times, there was friction even between the Shaivas and Vaishnavas in many native states.
Are you saying that those who critique Hinduism and its priestly caste Brahmins are either non-Hindus or western educated scholars or Communists? Sounds like some racist Nazi Nuremburg or Manusmrithi rule.
Hinduism has never shied off criticism. Aatreya criticizes what I say all the time and I criticize what he says. But your criticism clearly shows your biases. If you can camouflage that, you would be more effective. Much is made of Manusmriti. It, along with Bhavishya Purana, are the most interpolated books in Hinduism. People forget that there have been hundreds of Smritis in Hinduism since time immemorial. Even my grandfather wrote one in 1947-50 - Vishweshwarasmriti. It has 8,000 Sanskit verses. You might read some excerpts from it which I posted in other forums (Readings from a 20th Century Hindu Law Book (Smriti)). He was against dalit oppression, for widow remarriage, and accepted Big-Bang, Evolution, Paleontology, and plate tectonics. Hinduism is not a static religion. :D
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,332
India
#30
IMHO, Jainism is tough, asks you to abstain from many things. And Buddhist scholars went on a scholarly hyperdrive making Buddhism unintelligible for common people. Both were fairly popular at one time, but IMHO, these are the reasons which caused the shift to Hinduism. As I said, barring exceptions, they were considered two more 'panthas' (ways, roads) among the many in Hinduism which declined. At times, there was friction even between the Shaivas and Vaishnavas in many native states.
In most of the Hindu household the deity worshiped are mixed of Shivas and Vaishnavas and Shakti. Beside, I have never heard of major Buddhist sites in South India. The kings in Karnataka patronized Jainism. But in other reasons of South India, the sites related to Jainism is rare. Beside the the Dravidianists try to project major historical figures of South India as Jains or Buddhists because their hostile views against Hinduism. In Kerala, there was Jewish and Christian presence centuries ago, but Jainism or Buddhism never heard of it.
 

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