Historical Accuracy of Cultural Sensitivity?

Jun 2015
121
United States
#21
............ has it really come to this?

People are too scared to write a fictional book for the fear of being "Roseanne Barred".
I really tried not to let it come to that, but it's been kind of overwhelming lately, since there's been so much immersion in political correctness, cultural sensitivity, and all the issues in the history field, like the thing about Greek origins and such, I've been worried about possibly saying something wrong. I guess I probably shouldn't care what other people think.
 
#22
I really tried not to let it come to that, but it's been kind of overwhelming lately, since there's been so much immersion in political correctness, cultural sensitivity, and all the issues in the history field, like the thing about Greek origins and such, I've been worried about possibly saying something wrong. I guess I probably shouldn't care what other people think.
Greek origins?

Please expand, this is interesting.
 
Jun 2015
121
United States
#23
Greek origins?

Please expand, this is interesting.
There's been a debate going on about the origins of the Ancient Greeks, and recently a DNA test was conducted, and it was discovered that the Greeks came (mainly, anyway) from the Myceneans, which came from European descent. So the "Greeks were African" theory was debunked, as well as the "Greeks were Arabian" and the "Greeks were Egyptian" theories. Apparently, not a lot of people were happy about that find, and the scientists were being called racist and such, and people claimed that they were "whitewashing" history. But the DNA said otherwise.
And even though race was not as important in ancient Greece and Rome, this is a different time and a different country- and with this going on and other issues, I really didn't want to start anything with the book.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,486
United States
#25
So you're worried making people of color or of mixed race antagonists in your book will offend people? I think anyone offended by that is being unreasonable, especially if you're sticking to known history. To think people of color can't be bad people is just as wrong as thinking all people of color are bad people, or that white people can do no wrong.

Exactly. Let's judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I think I remember someone saying that once.
 
Sep 2012
905
Prague, Czech Republic
#26
There's been a debate going on about the origins of the Ancient Greeks, and recently a DNA test was conducted, and it was discovered that the Greeks came (mainly, anyway) from the Myceneans, which came from European descent. So the "Greeks were African" theory was debunked, as well as the "Greeks were Arabian" and the "Greeks were Egyptian" theories. Apparently, not a lot of people were happy about that find, and the scientists were being called racist and such, and people claimed that they were "whitewashing" history. But the DNA said otherwise.
And even though race was not as important in ancient Greece and Rome, this is a different time and a different country- and with this going on and other issues, I really didn't want to start anything with the book.

The important thing to remember is that it's hard to say anything meaningful, or indeed anything incidental, about a lot of historical subjects without mortally offending somebody. One thing will lead to a whiny child calling you a racist, the other will lead to a different whiny child calling you an 'SJW'. The solution is not to listen to the whiny chidren, even when they're posing as respectable adults.
 

Scaeva

Ad Honorem
Oct 2012
5,422
#27
Are you sure? I'm not at all trying to question your knowledge, but I've come across a few articles proclaiming him to be the first African emperor and so and so forth.
He was an African emperor. He was born in modern day Libya to parents who were also native to Africa.

By "African" did you mean black?

If so, that's less certain. His mother was from the gens Fulvia which was a Latin family. She was descended from a branch of the family that had relocated to Africa. His father was either Punic or a Punicized Lybian, since it is known that his sister barely spoke Latin and that his paternal grandfather (the first to be awarded Roman citizenship) had been a suffete.

On the father's line being Punic or Punicized Libyans:

"His sister from Leptis once came to see him, and, since she could scarcely speak Latin, made the emperor blush for her hotly."
Historia Augusta - The Life of Septimius Severus


"To the grandfather of our lord the emperor caesar Lucius Septimius Severus, Pius, Pertinax, Arabicus, Adiabenicus, Parthicus Maximus, in the tenth year of his tribunicial powers, eleven times imperator, three times consul, father of the fatherland, proconsul, Lucius Septimius Severus, who was suffete, prefect, chosen duumvir by the public when the Roman citizenship was granted for the first time, forever flamen, and judged lawsuits both in the panels at Rome and as juryman for the Lepcitanian community."
Lepcis Magna Inscriptions

"Suffetes (Phoenician sptm, "judges"): highest official in a Phoenician city.

The Phoenician officials known as suffetes are well-known, but in another way than we might expect: the expression is used to describe the leaders of the Jewish people in the Biblical book of Judges (shophtim). People like Gideon, Samson and Samuel had a title that was well-known in the towns along the eastern shore of the Mediterranean.

Probably, the suffetes were originally representatives of the king or (in the Bible) God. Later, this informal title became a well-defined office. The Phoenician city of Tyre sent suffetes to its colonies in the west. There, they had certain religious duties, controled the colony's finances, and were president of several kinds of political assemblies. As their title indicates, they also served as judges. They are usually not mentioned as military leaders. Often, there were two of them, so that they would control each other.
Suffete

On the mother's line being Italian (Latin):

"Fulvia Pia was his mother, Aper and Severus, both of consular rank, his great-uncles."
Historia Augusta - The Life of Septimius Severus
 
Jun 2015
121
United States
#28
Exactly. Let's judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I think I remember someone saying that once.
Thank you. That was my whole problem to begin with- I didn't want people to think I had made him one of the antagonists just because of his skin color- it was because of his historical actions and personality.
 
#29
There's been a debate going on about the origins of the Ancient Greeks, and recently a DNA test was conducted, and it was discovered that the Greeks came (mainly, anyway) from the Myceneans, which came from European descent. So the "Greeks were African" theory was debunked, as well as the "Greeks were Arabian" and the "Greeks were Egyptian" theories. Apparently, not a lot of people were happy about that find, and the scientists were being called racist and such, and people claimed that they were "whitewashing" history. But the DNA said otherwise.
And even though race was not as important in ancient Greece and Rome, this is a different time and a different country- and with this going on and other issues, I really didn't want to start anything with the book.
I literally could of told you that without even knowing the context.

Greeks originate from two main sources actually Mycenean is already well known as the original peoples but a large part of Greece was also inhabited later on by invading Dorian's.

Not sure how this is controversial?

Who was offended that Greeks weren't Arabic or African? I'm sure native Greeks weren't.
 
Jun 2015
121
United States
#30
He was an African emperor. He was born in modern day Libya to parents who were also native to Africa.

By "African" did you mean black?

If so, that's less certain. His mother was from the gens Fulvia which was a Latin family. She was descended from a branch of the family that had relocated to Africa. His father was either Punic or a Punicized Lybian, since it is known that his sister barely spoke Latin and that his paternal grandfather (the first to be awarded Roman citizenship) had been a suffete.

On the father's line being Punic or Punicized Libyans:



Historia Augusta - The Life of Septimius Severus




Lepcis Magna Inscriptions



Suffete

On the mother's line being Italian (Latin):



Historia Augusta - The Life of Septimius Severus
That's what I was trying to figure out. It was mainly because, while researching him, I came across this picture

And I didn't want to describe him the wrong way and be accused of whitewashing, and I also didn't want people to think I was making him a bad guy because of his skin color and origins. I'm trying to go by history, but this is proving to be a little bit sketchy as far as history is concerned. :eek:
 

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