History is fake.

Feb 2017
132
Pacific Ocean
#71
history is taught to justify a politic-economic-social view in the present..that is the reason because a fact... is perceived differently according to the time in which a human is living.
How can your assertion be true, considering that it is your interpretation of what you see around you? You yourself seem to perceive History through a point of view in which fake news and general skepticism about the truth are the rule, which is itself only the current paradigm in some circles and, as any other paradigm, will soon pass away.

Of course interpretations are fictions, created by the historian to better explain what happened. They cannot fully explain the past. But at the same time human beings live life thinking through causal relations, even if these only partially explain what is happening around them, and this is not problematic in the slightest. If an apple fell from my hand I can think of three initial interpretations as to why: 1) I let it drop; 2) My hand was slippery; 3) Gravity pulled it. The 'fact' here is that an apple fell, while the rest is only my interpretations of why that was so. I could simply chose interpretation #1 and that would solve the problem, for it still relates to a part of reality. Explanations do not have to fully explain events, for this is impossible even with daily occurrences such as apples falling from slippery hands (maybe I had tripped just an instant before it fell?), but it seems that there is no problem if historical explanations only partly explain events. A partial explanation still refers to an aspect of reality.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,611
Spain
#72
How can your assertion be true, considering that it is your interpretation of what you see around you? You yourself seem to perceive History through a point of view in which fake news and general skepticism about the truth are the rule, which is itself only the current paradigm in some circles and, as any other paradigm, will soon pass away.

Of course interpretations are fictions, created by the historian to better explain what happened. They cannot fully explain the past. But at the same time human beings live life thinking through causal relations, even if these only partially explain what is happening around them, and this is not problematic in the slightest. If an apple fell from my hand I can think of three initial interpretations as to why: 1) I let it drop; 2) My hand was slippery; 3) Gravity pulled it. The 'fact' here is that an apple fell, while the rest is only my interpretations of why that was so. I could simply chose interpretation #1 and that would solve the problem, for it still relates to a part of reality. Explanations do not have to fully explain events, for this is impossible even with daily occurrences such as apples falling from slippery hands (maybe I had tripped just an instant before it fell?), but it seems that there is no problem if historical explanations only partly explain events. A partial explanation still refers to an aspect of reality.
Not at all. I am only based my conception of the history as a chain of facts (facts, facts, the "Mathematic" facts), I care a damn any kind of interpretation... for me all interpretation have the same "scientific value" that the snow white tale... Of course, I read.. and I take part in talking... but for me it is only a kind of "hooliganism"... or if you prefer... passionated supporter or one stortelling man... only facts are history... that is the reason because for me...the Ancient History is not history but a (in the best of case) a supposition based on some non-proved facts.

I agre 100% with you... Interpretations are fictions.... of course yes. I don´t believe in any interpretation...Interpretation only wants to explain the present... and justifying it. In fact... nobody in this forum and in this planet know how the Second World War will be interpreted in the year 2145. And for sure... very different that in 1965..So interpretations are not interested to me.. only facts...
 
Dec 2011
1,304
#73
Not at all. I am only based my conception of the history as a chain of facts (facts, facts, the "Mathematic" facts), I care a damn any kind of interpretation... for me all interpretation have the same "scientific value" that the snow white tale... Of course, I read.. and I take part in talking... but for me it is only a kind of "hooliganism"... or if you prefer... passionated supporter or one stortelling man... only facts are history... that is the reason because for me...the Ancient History is not history but a (in the best of case) a supposition based on some non-proved facts.

I agre 100% with you... Interpretations are fictions.... of course yes. I don´t believe in any interpretation...Interpretation only wants to explain the present... and justifying it. In fact... nobody in this forum and in this planet know how the Second World War will be interpreted in the year 2145. And for sure... very different that in 1965..So interpretations are not interested to me.. only facts...
Could you tell us how you identify facts?
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,611
Spain
#76
Could you tell us how you identify facts?
Very very very easy.. What´s happened....and it is possible to prove. Soviet Army took Berlin (a fact). British-US-Canadian army landed in Normandy...Australian were in Vietnam... Real Madrid won 13 Europen Cups...Spain uprised Napoleon May 2nd, 1808... facts... not intepretation.

A fact: Real Madrid won more European cups that nobody on Earth (Fact)
Real Madrid is the best team in history (Non-Fact, interpretation, hooliganism...)

For me... Ancient history is not history... everything we know abut Ancient Greeks, Persian Empire, Alexander the Great... are intepretations.. not fact at all.

Regards
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,611
Spain
#77
If it coincides with your own opinions perhaps?
Not at all... 1956 Parc des Princes, June 13th... Real Madrid won Stade de Reims 4 - 3 (0-1, 0 - 2, 1 - 2, 2 - 2, 2 - 3, 3 - 3, 4 - 3)... a FACT my dear Kevin... not coincides at all with your or my opinion... personally I don´t like football.... Maybe you don´t like football too... but the fact, the fact... coincides or doesn´t coincide with your or mine or our opinion... it is Real Madrid 4 - Stade de Reims 3. Nobody, no generation.. from the Past, the Present or the future is going to change the FACT.

I hope I ve been able to teacht to you what is a fact and the different with an opinion. Fact is Mathematic... Opinion is only literature.
 
Dec 2011
1,304
#78
Very very very easy.. What´s happened....and it is possible to prove. Soviet Army took Berlin (a fact). British-US-Canadian army landed in Normandy...Australian were in Vietnam... Real Madrid won 13 Europen Cups...Spain uprised Napoleon May 2nd, 1808... facts... not intepretation.

A fact: Real Madrid won more European cups that nobody on Earth (Fact)
Real Madrid is the best team in history (Non-Fact, interpretation, hooliganism...)

For me... Ancient history is not history... everything we know abut Ancient Greeks, Persian Empire, Alexander the Great... are intepretations.. not fact at all.

Regards
You gave a few examples but what I am seeking is instruction as to how I can properly identify what a fact is and what is not.
 
May 2011
13,971
Navan, Ireland
#80
Not at all... 1956 Parc des Princes, June 13th... Real Madrid won Stade de Reims 4 - 3 (0-1, 0 - 2, 1 - 2, 2 - 2, 2 - 3, 3 - 3, 4 - 3)... a FACT my dear Kevin... not coincides at all with your or my opinion... personally I don´t like football.... Maybe you don´t like football too... but the fact, the fact... coincides or doesn´t coincide with your or mine or our opinion... it is Real Madrid 4 - Stade de Reims 3. Nobody, no generation.. from the Past, the Present or the future is going to change the FACT.

I hope I ve been able to teacht to you what is a fact and the different with an opinion. Fact is Mathematic... Opinion is only literature.
But you post your 'opinion' continually claiming it as history and what actually happened -- so you don't 'stick to the facts' any more than anyone else.
 

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