Hitler and religion

Dec 2015
3,467
USA
#31
The full quote was this:

“Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Goebbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide.”

From: Inside The Third Reich

As mentioned earlier it was "for tactical reasons".

Albert Speer is not saying that Hitler remained a pious Christian as you do to smear Christians and Christianity.

We both know that historum have experienced cases where banned user(s), for example one loser with Islamic agenda, often have returned back and claimed new ethnicity and religion in order pursue and fail their agenda. For example, you have praised the Dhimmi-system and Devshirme-system and idiotically asserted that it was good for the Christians, and even played down the Genocide denial of the Turks against the Armenians for example. And now you try and fail so hard to prove that your “own religion” Catholic-Christianity was a religion that Hitler loved so much, but you still fail as authun and I easily can point out how you distort quotation.

We both know why you are doing it. :)
More selective quoting and ignoring of key points by you. And again, the personal angle of all people from you whom itt post anti Muslim bigotry, who do you think you are to ever play some kind of moral card? You launch unprovoked personal attacks because you do not have a proper argument to counter with.

Counter why the Reich had mass Christian support.

Counter how that a Catholic Priest in Father Tiso led a state that supported The Reich.

Whether or not Hitler was a Catholic until his dying days does not negate the Fact the Reich had mass Christian support. You can ignore this all you want, post anything you want, it wont change the facts
 
Dec 2015
3,467
USA
#32
The Reich Concordat between Hitler and the Vatican:

In 1917, Eugenio Pacelli, later to become Pope Pius XII, resided in a nunciature in Munich, directly opposite to what was later to become the Brown House, the cradle of Nazism. There he showed his first inkling of his unsympathetic feelings toward the Jews when he refused to come to the assistance of Jews and calling them a "Jewish cult." [Cornwell, p.70]. In a typewritten letter, he described "a gang of young women, of dubious appearance, Jews as like all the rest of them, hanging around in the offices with lecherous demeanor and suggestive smiles." [Cornwell, p.75] In the 1920s Pacelli presented his credentials to the Weimer government where he stated, "For my part, I will devote my entire strength to cultivating and strengthening the relations between the Holy See and Germany." Pacelli's stay in Germany with his familiarity with their political, religious, and racist views must have influenced his later work to unify Catholicism with Germany.

In Italy, the Holy See signed a pact (drafted by Pacelli's brother and Pietro Gasparri) with Mussolini in February 1929, known as the Lateran Treaty. Hitler had taken note of the Lateran Treaty and hoped for an identical agreement for his future regime. [Cornwell, pp.114-115] The Vatican encouraged priests to support the Fascists and the Pope spoke of Mussolini as "a man sent by Providence." The Church has a history of pacts with criminal states as the Holy See signed treaties with monarchs and governments regardless of slavery, inhumanity, or torture they may have induced upon fellow human beings. Even Mussolini's attack on Ethiopia on October 3, 1935 was not condemned by the Holy See. Nor did Pius XI restrain the Italian hierarchy from war enthusiasm. "O Duce!, declared the bishop of Terracina, "today Italy is Fascist and the hearts of all Italians beat together with yours." [Cornwell, p.175]

In the 1930s, Pacelli and his associates negotiated with the Nazis to form a contract which got signed in 1933 as the Reich Concordat with the approval of the Pope. Note that the Catholic hierarchy believes in the infallibility of Popes in matters of faith and morals (ever since the First Vatican Council of 1870). This Concordat with its Papal infallible authority had arguably neutralized the potential of 23 million Catholics to protest and resist and which helped Hitler into legal dictatorship. [Cornwell, p. 4] After the agreement, Hitler, mimicking Pacelli fourteen years earlier stated, "I will devote my entire strength to cultivating and strengthening the relations between the Holy See and Germany." [Cornwell, p. 136] (Hitler, spent more time and effort on the concordat with Pacelli than on any other treaty in the entire era of the Third Reich [Cornwell, p. 150]). This Concordat gave Germany an opportunity to create an area of trust with the Church and gave significance to the developing struggle against international Jewry. According to John Cornwell, this papal endorsement of Nazism helped seal the fate of Europe which makes it plausible that these Catholic prejudices bolstered aspects of Nazi anti-Semitism. [Cornwell, p. 28]

The Concordat and the following Jewish persecutions resulted in the silence of the Pope and the bishops. Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich, referring to the Nazi attacks on the Jews, wrote to Pacelli, confirming that protest proved pointless since it could only extend the struggle to Catholics. He told Pacelli, "Jews can help themselves." [Cornwell, p. 140] Most bishops and Cardinals were Nazi sympathizers as were bishop Wilhelm Berning of Osnabruck and Archbishop Grober of Freiburg (Pacelli's choice for emissaries).

On April 25, thousands of Catholic priests across Germany became part of an anti-Semitic attestation bureaucracy, supplying details of blood purity through marriage and baptism registries in accordance with the Nazi Nuremberg laws which distinguished Jews from non-Jews. Catholic clerical compliance in the process would continue throughout the period of the Nazi regime. [Cornwell, pp.154] Any claimed saving of all-too-few Jewish lives by a few brave Catholics must stand against the millions who died in the death camps as an indirect result of the official workings of the Catholic body.


Christianity in Europe during WWII
 
Dec 2015
3,467
USA
#33
After Kristallnacht (where Nazis broke Jewish store windows and had synagogues burned) there issued not a single word of condemnation from the Vatican, the German Church hierarchy, or from Pacelli. Yet in an encyclical on anti-Semitism, titled Humani generis unitas (The Unity of the Human Race) by Pope Pius XI, a section claims that the Jews were responsible for their own fate. God had chosen them to make way for Christ's redemption but they denied him and killed him. And now, "Blinded by their dream of worldly gain and material success," they had deserved the "worldly and spiritual ruin" that they had brought down upon themselves. [Cornwell, p. 191] Cardinal Theodor Innitzer, archbishop of Vienna warmly received Hitler in Vienna after his triumphal march through the capital where he expressed public satisfaction with Hitler's regime. [Cornwell, p. 201] Meanwhile, Cardinal Bertram sent Hitler an effusive telegram, published on October 2 in the Nazi newspaper Volkischer Beobachter, "The great deed of safeguarding peace among the nations moves the German episcopate acting in the name of the Catholics of all the German dioceses, respectfully to extend congratulations and thanks and to order a festive ringing of bells on Sunday." [Cornwell, p. 202]

After the death of Pius XI, the electoral procedure to elect another pope had begun. The March 1939 election favored Pacelli and four days later, Pacelli made it clear that he would handle all German affairs personally. He proposed the following affirmation of Hitler:

To the Illustrious Herr Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer and Chancellor of the German Reich! Here at the beginning of Our Pontificate We wish to assure you that We remain devoted to the spiritual welfare of the German people entrusted to your leadership.... During the many years we spent in Germany, We did all in Our power to establish harmonious relations between Church and State. Now that the responsibilities of Our pastoral function have increased Our opportunities, how much more ardently do
We pray to reach that goal. May the prosperity of the German people and their progress in every domain come, with God's help, to fruition!

Pacelli became a crowned Pope on March 12, 1939 (Pius XII). The following month on April 20, 1939, at Pacelli's express wish, Archbishop Orsenigo, the nuncio in Berlin, opened a gala reception for Hitler's fiftieth birthday. The birthday greetings thus initiated by Pacelli immediately became a tradition; each April 20 during the few years left to Hitler and his Reich, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin would send "warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany," to which he added "fervent prayers which the Catholics in Germany are sending to heaven on their altars." [Cornwell, p. 209] By this time Pacelli could call on the loyalty and devotion of a half-billion people, of which half the populations of Hitler's new Reich had become Catholics, including a quarter of the SS. At this time bishops, clergy, religious, and faithful had bound themselves to the Pope, and by his own self estimation, served as the supreme arbiter of moral values on earth. [Cornwell, p. 215]



Christianity in Europe during WWII
 
Last edited:
Sep 2018
10
greek isles
#34
Hitler was more christian catholic than many western leaders of his time.

''he promoted christian values, subscribe to christian beliefs, hailed the christian god in his fight againts communism and jewish manipulation and unethical practices including promoting hatred towards the german people..'

He was more honest and forthright than his rivals at the western, european leaders who uses deceit and lies towards germany.
 
Mar 2013
1,441
Escandinavia y Mesopotamia
#35
More selective quoting and ignoring of key points by you. And again, the personal angle of all people from you whom itt post anti Muslim bigotry, who do you think you are to ever play some kind of moral card? You launch unprovoked personal attacks because you do not have a proper argument to counter with.

Counter why the Reich had mass Christian support.

Counter how that a Catholic Priest in Father Tiso led a state that supported The Reich.

Whether or not Hitler was a Catholic until his dying days does not negate the Fact the Reich had mass Christian support. You can ignore this all you want, post anything you want, it wont change the facts
Uhm? I don't think anyone here is claiming that Nazis did not have support from a Christian population of Germany. Of course they had, pretty much/less as Turks had from its Muslim population during the Armenian Genocide. Nobody here is either claiming that Hitler was Atheist.

What is claimed is that Hitler did not have a genuine religious faith in the same traditional manner as Francisco Franco or Nicholas II for example who nobody would doubt was a pious Catholic- and Ortodox-Christian. But as that pious Catholic you have asserted that you are, and in which I and other debaters of course doubt for very very very obvious reason, your behaviour, your way of argumentation and your tendentious use of selective quotes are so weird. ;)
 
Likes: Isleifson

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
8,676
#36
Hitler was more christian catholic than many western leaders of his time.

''he promoted christian values, subscribe to christian beliefs, hailed the christian god in his fight againts communism and jewish manipulation and unethical practices including promoting hatred towards the german people..'

He was more honest and forthright than his rivals at the western, european leaders who uses deceit and lies towards germany.
What? What? What? Hitler was extremely dishonest , and use dlies and deciet just reoutinely. This cliam is just factual wrong.

Hitler murdered lareg numbers of people. Political rivals, opeople he didnt't lke. Thurrgey , Murder were just rountine day to dauy stuff for the Nazi party.

To say promoted christian values, is to paint black as white.
 
Likes: Isleifson

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,036
#37
Counter how that a Catholic Priest in Father Tiso led a state that supported The Reich.
You need to read about Tiso's support for a breakaway slovakian state from Czechoslovakia and his hatred of jews. It's personal ambition rather than pastoral care playing to the nationalist gallery in Slovakia. He just happens to be a catholic priest.
 
Likes: Isleifson
Dec 2015
3,467
USA
#38
What? What? What? Hitler was extremely dishonest , and use dlies and deciet just reoutinely. This cliam is just factual wrong.

Hitler murdered lareg numbers of people. Political rivals, opeople he didnt't lke. Thurrgey , Murder were just rountine day to dauy stuff for the Nazi party.

To say promoted christian values, is to paint black as white.
My friend you are dealing there with someone that is defending Hitler. The millions upon millions of Christians that fought for Hitler of course viewed Hitler as a great man, and they were inspired in the countless times Hitler invoked Jesus or Christianity in the so called battle against Jews. Its interesting you, myself, Authun and El Cid all stand against the views of Trachis perhaps in a different approach but indeed we are all on the same side. Hope is maybe we can convince Trachis to change his or her views. As anyone today that supports discrimination against others based on religion or skin color is a great opponent of freedom and civility. Those today that do not criticize others based on actions, but based on religion or skin color are opposed by people in every part of the world that do support humane values.



One hundred percent I do agree that Hitler went against Christian and European values, unfortunately opposition to the Reich was not enough to stop WW2, to stop the Reich from taking over France and much of the USSR feats that would elevate Hitler to hero status in Germany and elsewhere. The situation is totally comparable to how ISIL supporters of today will no matter what they hear about the crimes of ISIL...still stand with ISIL. Its something how to this day years after WW2, that there are still some ardent Hitler defenders in the world but there is our world for you, you got good and bad everywhere.
 

royal744

Ad Honoris
Jul 2013
10,146
San Antonio, Tx
#39
As an
Hitler was more christian catholic than many western leaders of his time.

''he promoted christian values, subscribe to christian beliefs, hailed the christian god in his fight againts communism and jewish manipulation and unethical practices including promoting hatred towards the german people..'

He was more honest and forthright than his rivals at the western, european leaders who uses deceit and lies towards germany.
Do please explain (waiting)
 
Likes: Futurist
Apr 2010
1,007
evergreen state, USA
#40
According to my maternal grandmother, my maternal grandfather Hans Schrotz, went to school with Adolf Hitler in Linz, Austria. But my grandfather was two years younger than A.H., if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, according to my grandmother, Hans (John) was very disappointed in the American version of Catholicism and therefore became Protestant like my grandmother. But, you have to consider the circumstances in the USA back then. Germans/Austrians were not liked during the WWI and WWII periods. So he did his best to blend in with other Americans there in the Midwest.
 

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