Hitler and Zionism

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,366
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Well, technically a Zionist is who wants the Jewish state in Canaan. [You know "Zion" - Sion ...].

This said, Fascism comes to mind. In the first phase of the Fascist dictatorship the relationships between the Fascist regime and Jews were good [Mussolini even stated that it was impossible to differentiate on the base of race ...] and some ministers, Guido Jung for example, [even governors of colonies ... Maurizio Rava' who was also general of the Fascist Militia] were Jews.

Then Hitler "suggested" to issue the notorious racial laws.

This to say that Fascism [Nazism was the German version of Fascism] wasn't, originally, Anti-Semite.

Again remembering what happened in Italy ... Jews who joined the Fascist party later joined the Resistance and they fought against Fascists and Nazis. What happened?

Simple: German madness ... and they realized that the regime was asking them to become "Italians of Jewish religion" ... eh ... no, they were Italian Jews. They were Jews and Italians ...

Back to Zionism:

also Fascists proposed to Jews the creation of a Jewish state, but in the African Horne, so technically Fascists weren't Zionist. In this German Nazis were more Zionist than Italian Fascists!

About Hitler, he was more concerned about the presence of the British Empire in Middle East than interested in the Zionist cause. If the Jews were able to become a problem for the Brits, Jews were a useful tool as well.

The problem with Mr. Livingstone is that he should pay more attention to geopolitical contexts. Hitler wanted a nice mess in Middle East. Zionists were welcomed ... in Middle East ... in Germany there were the concentration camps for Zionists ...
 

Bish

Ad Honorem
Dec 2011
8,206
Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk.
While red ken's statement was not completely correct in that Hitler did not support the plan at first and, as has been mentioned, he was not so much supporting Zionism as he was any means of getting the Jews out of Germany. I think his statement is close enough that he certainly did not deserve the verbal abuse he received from that loud mouth northern bully boy.

Though why the subject was relevant to the issue at the time alludes me.
 
Jul 2017
62
Dublin
You know, the whole Jewish problem and answer by the nazi's never made sense. If they were as Hitler believed, why not just tell them to leave and go infect other countries to weaken them as they did Germany? (Remember, this is from Hitler's viewpoint, not mine).

Their solution never made any sense from a number of angles....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
May 2013
395
Hays Kansas (ex Australian)
It never made sense before there was a Nazi Party.
It did in Christian countries where usery was a crime. Suddenly everyone holding a loan from a Jewish banker decides Jews are bad......suddenly you dont owe that money anymore.
 

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
It did in Christian countries where usery was a crime. Suddenly everyone holding a loan from a Jewish banker decides Jews are bad......suddenly you dont owe that money anymore.
But most of the Jews that were murdered over the centuries were not moneylenders.

The hatred persevered on the back of simple xenophobia.

One thing led to another, 20th century means and methods were applied, and the Final Solution Holocaust ensued.
 
May 2013
395
Hays Kansas (ex Australian)
But most of the Jews that were murdered over the centuries were not moneylenders.

The hatred persevered on the back of simple xenophobia.

One thing led to another, 20th century means and methods were applied, and the Final Solution Holocaust ensued.
Well if they had only killed the money lenders, it would have been simple murder. Taking out all the Jews, thats following whatever ideology you are sprouting to defend your position.

And that ideology is easy to invent. Jews killed Jesus - therefore it is okay to kill Jews.

And please understand I am not dismissing your thoughts of xenophobia. I agree at times the distinct Jewish culture has contributed to the populist scare mongering
 

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
...
And please understand I am not dismissing your thoughts of xenophobia. I agree at times the distinct Jewish culture has contributed to the populist scare mongering
But by definition, there can be no populist scare mongering without a distinct minority culture to serve as the recipient of the fear and hatred.


 
Feb 2009
573
...The hatred persevered on the back of simple xenophobia...
I would argue more due religious intolerance and a generally uneducated population than simple xenophobia. Anti-Jewish feeling was almost always (using your own list of examples) stoked up by religious zealots/bigots/fanatics, call them what you will. Xenophobia was almost non-existant before the rise of nationalism in the 1840's and even then mostly restricted to Christian Europe. It's perhaps no accident that most of these "expelees" migrated to Muslim lands.