Hitler dies in late December 1941

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,081
Connecticut
#13
Saddam was able to survive a humiliating military defeat in 1991, though.
Not just that. Look at the Iran-Iraq war and how badly that went at times. Btw there's also the example of Nasser and the severe setbacks of 1956, 1967, 1968-1970 and the Yemen failure.
 

starman

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
4,081
Connecticut
#14
I disagree. At a bare minimum, Stalin had to remove German forces from Soviet territory. Anything less and he couldn't have survived in power, which means he couldn't have survived.
But under highly adverse circumstances such as existed around May-July 1942, there was a widespread feeling that the outcome could be worse--total defeat, or an inability to claw any territory back. In any event Stalin, like Hitler, Nasser and Saddam, had such a good grip on power he could survive serious setbacks and humiliations.
 
Jan 2013
974
Toronto, Canada
#15
Not just that. Look at the Iran-Iraq war and how badly that went at times. Btw there's also the example of Nasser and the severe setbacks of 1956, 1967, 1968-1970 and the Yemen failure.
None of Nasser's defeats were as bad as Stalin's would have been if he made peace in 1942, but you have given me some second thoughts about my conclusions.
 
Likes: Futurist
Jul 2016
9,680
USA
#16
Yes, but the threat to him was from Iraqi Shiites and Kurds rather than from his own military.
His own military was mostly Shi'a. Or do you think less than 20% of the population controlled the Iraqi Army too?

There is a reason the Republican Guard existed. They were the only loyal ones, and they were the best equipped. They not only put down the civilian revolts, they also kept the rest of the military in check.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,197
SoCal
#17
Didn't the West do this in OTL - so yes they would ITL as well?
They left Poland and Czechoslovakia to the Communists in real life. It wasn't exactly a dignified move, but it was more acceptable than leaving them to the Nazis since the Communists were our WWII allies (and endured absolutely massive casualties in WWII) while the Nazis were our WWII enemies.
 
Aug 2013
169
Finland
#18
Czechoslovakia had already been left to the Nazis in real life once in 1938 and then later to the Communists - so they were abandoned twice. The Allied response to German's invasion of Poland was not exactly strong either and if Germany had never attacked anyone else, but just sat there was well, it would in my opinion eventually have defused and ended the war. Germany just called their bluff when invading Poland, but the West had no desire to actually fight at that point yet.
 
Likes: Futurist

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