Hitler&Stalin pact against Europe

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,397
Sydney
Sweden stayed neutral but the Wallenberg family was very helpful to the Nazi war economy through their bank and industries
their company SKF sold a lot of ball bearings to Germany ,
as such trusted friends , they were allowed by the Nazis , late in the war , to somehow whiten their public image with display of humanitarianism
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,101
Sweden stayed neutral but the Wallenberg family was very helpful to the Nazi war economy through their bank and industries
their company SKF sold a lot of ball bearings to Germany ,
as such trusted friends , they were allowed by the Nazis , late in the war , to somehow whiten their public image with display of humanitarianism
Sweden provided about half of the Iron that Germany needed..... Allowed transit of german troops... .Allowed its citizens to fight in the waffen SS

Very dubious neutrality
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,101
I'll be the devil's advocate here

First, the USSR was the only country which was seriously trying to oppose german expansion up until 1939.. In Spain, in Czech and elsewhere.... Meanwhile the western allies did next to nothing..... So at some point the USSR gave up (and probably would have regardless of the regime in place)

Second the division into "spheres of influence" was the logic of the 19th and early 20th century, nothing out of the ordinary... the UK and France were fine with it as regarded Africa (leaving some crumbs for other colonial powers such as Italy) and other parts of the world... In that respect Germany and France were doing in eastern Europe what the UK and France had done elsewhere....

Third the so called "democracies" could not really be called that at the time, considering that they imposed their will on large populations -treated at best as second class citizens- whose countries they had invaded, carved and oppressed.... Even after the end of WW2 they would fight wars to try (unsuccessfully ) to keep these populations in check
Even the US was in the Philippines where it was neither wanted nor needed... And at home it had just conducted an ethnic cleansing of mexicans (including many with US citizenship) and african americans were still discriminated against...

So it is really not a matter of how bad the foreign policy of the USSR or even of Germany was.... it is a matter that all foreign policies of all powers were simply atrocious at the time....
 
Sep 2019
404
Slovenia
Well Tomar at that time communists tried to persuade even Jews that Hitler is not bigger evil than the west. Leaders of USA communist party wrote in May 1940 just on the start of Hitler's westward offensive that American Jewsih leaders from the right and left are trying to influence Jews that the west is better than Hitler using the suffering of Jews in Third Reich, Poland and other occupied lands as an excuse. And the real job of this relativization was to cover up how Europe is divided between two totalitarian regimes and how they in agreement occupy more and more countries and bring reign of terror to more and more people. Concerning colonies Molotov offered to Germany a proposal that joint effort can be made that Germany will get back its colonies which it lost after WW1. And we know of course that they treated people in south Africa very badly. And such relativization of crimes of totalitarian regimes is without sense, we can always say but yes well in Roman times they also had slaves and there were slaves in the south of USA so if Stalin had 30 milion people in gulags working as slaves that is not so bad. And you had religious wars in the past so wars of totalitarian ideologies are not so bad. And tribes were fighting in the past sometimes until extermination so if Hitler or Stalin were making genocied in 20th century that is also not so bad. Plus in totalitarian regimes you had no opposition to such practices allowed and in the western democracies even in that time you had it of course.
 
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Sep 2019
404
Slovenia
German westward offensive is approwed also by Soviets, communists started to collaborate with Nazis in occupied countries

On the very day when German attack on France and neutral Low countries started Molotov said to German ambassador Schulenburg that he agrees that Germany should defend itself against Anglo-French attack. Soviet press followed completely that line, writting that German invasion was a counter and preemptive attack against the threat of allied invasion of Germany. Concerning neutral low countries of Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg Hitler in fact ordered that plans should be made for an invasion against them already in October 1939, the goal was to make them as a base for a war against France and UK and their joint peace offer to Germany was declined in November 1939. On 18th of June 1940 Molotov in the name of Soviet government sent the most warm congratulations to Third Reich for the success of Wehrmacht which just defeated France. USSR used the fall of France to occupy Baltic states and part of Romania as we will soon see. So it is not a surprise that French and Dutch communists immediately started to collaborate with Nazis.

Dutch communists proclaimed just after occupation of Holland that people must resist their government in exile which made an alliance with England. And also people must not support any resistance against German occupation be it directly or even indirectly.
Nazis understood that support of communists is important and allowed the official newspaper of Dutch communist party to continue its pro-Nazi propaganda. French communists proclaimed just after the capitulation of France that German imperialism was their ally in this war having the same goal as they had that is the destruction of French imperialism ( yet in fact Vichy France kept French colonies ), so workers should see Germans as their allies and should be kind toward them. Communists also promised Germans that if they will allow their newspaper L'Humanite they will attack so called British imperialism as their common enemy. The request was refused by Germans in this case because Petain was against it.

Hitler and Stalin Pact against Europe, written by Johann Wolfgang Brugel, published in Ljubljana, 2019, pages 179-191

 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,675
Europix
I'll be the devil's advocate here

First, the USSR was the only country which was seriously trying to oppose german expansion up until 1939.. In Spain, in Czech and elsewhere.... Meanwhile the western allies did next to nothing..... So at some point the USSR gave up (and probably would have regardless of the regime in place)

Second the division into "spheres of influence" was the logic of the 19th and early 20th century, nothing out of the ordinary... the UK and France were fine with it as regarded Africa (leaving some crumbs for other colonial powers such as Italy) and other parts of the world... In that respect Germany and France were doing in eastern Europe what the UK and France had done elsewhere....

Third the so called "democracies" could not really be called that at the time, considering that they imposed their will on large populations -treated at best as second class citizens- whose countries they had invaded, carved and oppressed.... Even after the end of WW2 they would fight wars to try (unsuccessfully ) to keep these populations in check
Even the US was in the Philippines where it was neither wanted nor needed... And at home it had just conducted an ethnic cleansing of mexicans (including many with US citizenship) and african americans were still discriminated against...

So it is really not a matter of how bad the foreign policy of the USSR or even of Germany was.... it is a matter that all foreign policies of all powers were simply atrocious at the time....
Well, tomar, You're not even the devil's advocate: You're simply bringing the real world, as it was at the time.

I totally agree with Your post.
 
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Oct 2015
370
Belfast
Where would such a pact leave Benito Mussolini? If my recall of history is correct, he wasn't pleased when he heard that a non-aggression pact had been signed between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Would Mussolini ask to leave the Axis or would he be an unwilling partner in the carve-up of Europe?
 
Sep 2019
404
Slovenia
Mussolini was also supporter of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. He signed his own non-aggression pact with USSR but really without secret protocol how to divide and in fact destroy European states. However it is true that the policy of Italy was kind of carefull about going in to the WW2 until the capitulation of France which was seen by both Nazis and communists us great success as i showed before.

On 6 May 1933, the Italy and USSR moved closer together by agreeing an economic pact supporting industrialisation goals; Italy required access to Soviet oil and coal, while the Soviets were interested in Italian innovations in the aviation, automobile and naval industries. The ideological controversy between fascism and communism was largely considered as an internal matter and relations were built up nevertheless.

 
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deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,675
Europix
The ideological controversy between fascism and communism was largely considered as an internal matter and relations were built up nevertheless.
That is more or less Your sole accurate assertion on interbelic European foreign policies in this thread.
 
Sep 2019
404
Slovenia
War in France was followed by Soviet occupation of Baltic states and part of Romania both with support from Third Reich

After the fall of France Soviet union quickly reacted with agression against Baltic states which were in their sphere of influence according to Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Already after the division and occupation of Poland by USSR and Third Reich Soviets pressed hardly all three Baltic states ( Estonia, Litvia and Lithuania ). They felt weak and allowed Red army to establish military bases on their territory. But in summer of 1940 Moscow made final move. Soviets gave an ultimatum to Baltic states that they should change their governments in pro-Soviet ones plus allowing an unlimited number of troops to enter the three countries.The Baltic governments had decided that, given their international isolation and the overwhelming Soviet forces on their borders and already on their territories, it was futile to actively resist and better to avoid bloodshed. The occupation of the Baltic states coincided with a communist coups in each country, supported by the Soviet troops. Puppet governments then accepted annexation of Baltic states by USSR. Widespread nationalization of private businesses followed and also preparations for total collectivization of agriculture. One party rule was introduced by force. Even organizations like Boy scouts were banned. However communists made an exception for local Germans. They were allowed to sell their property and go to the Third Reich. Many of them went in Poland where they got property from expelled Poles. Nazis annexed western Poland to Third Reich. More than 350.000 Poles were expelled from there. And thousands were killed in purges, specially former government officials, military officers in reserve, landowners, clergy, and members of the Polish intelligentsia. Country was subjected to forced Germanization. Some Poles however collaborated with Germans, most of those people were in fact bilingual. Germans which left Baltic states after Soviet occupation helped in Germanization process of Poland.

Sovietization of Baltic states was followed by large scale terror. In the first year of Soviet occupation, from June 1940 to June 1941, the number of confirmed executed, conscripted by force, or deported is estimated at a minimum of 124,467: 59,732 in Estonia, 34,250 in Latvia, and 30,485 in Lithuania. This included eight former heads of state and 38 ministers from Estonia, three former heads of state and 15 ministers from Latvia, and the then president, five prime ministers and 24 other ministers from Lithuania. Many of them later died in captivity because of poor conditions. Thousands of Jews were between those deported too. Those expelled were allowed to take with them just very a little of their property and men were later separated from their families and used as force labourers. The mortality rate among the Estonian deportees for example was estimated even at 60%.

Concerning Romania

Berlin approved Soviet aggression against Romania already on 25. 6. 1940. Ribbentrop confirmed on that day that Molotov should be told how Gremany will respect that Bessarabia belongs to Soviet sphere of interest as it was agreed in secret protocols of so called non-aggression pact. But they had reservations about Soviet occupation of Bukovina because many Germans were living there. And indeed Moscow accepted they will occupy just north part of Bukovina and leave southern part to Romania. On June 26, Molotov presented an ultimatum note to Romanians, in which the Soviet Union demanded the evacuation of the Romanian military and civil administration from Bessarabia and the northern Bukovina. On the next day Molotov declared that in case the Romanian side rejected Soviet demands, the Soviet troops were going to cross the border. On the morning of June 28, 1940, following advice by both Germany and Italy, the Romanian government, agreed to submit to the Soviet demands.

Romania was and old ally of France but after Soviet occupation of parts of its territory it got pro-German and antisemitic leadership of Ion Antonescu. Soviet action halped to put down pro-western government. It was followed by annexations of former Romanian territory by Hungary and Bulgaria.

Soviet occupation was followed by annexation to USSR and by widespread nationalization of private property and also here preparations for final collectivization of agriculture were made. During 1940–1941, political persecution of certain categories of locals took the form of arrests, executions, and deportations to USSR. Around 32.000 people received a politically motivated sentence, of which thousands were sentenced to death.


Hitler and Stalin Pact against Europe, written by Johann Wolfgang Brugel, published in Ljubljana, 2019, pages 187-191.





 
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