Holy Trinity a Fake?

Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,925
Romania
#61
What does the Trinity mean exactly? I find it confusing that the Bible implies that Jesus does the Millenium Reign and Great White Throne Judgement at separate times, since he is God and has no limitations.
"Trinity" means "the state of being three", in case of Christianity it refers to the trihypostatic nature of God. Even if "the Millenium Reign and Great White Throne" would be literally true (something which I doubt, especially concerning the Millennium -- AFAIK millennialism/chiliasm is a heresy), I can't see how these would contradict God's boundlessness. Can you explain please?
 
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specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,186
Australia
#62
Trinitarian concepts of Godhead have been around for a long time . It pervades everything .

Brahma Shiva Vishnu , even yin yang dao , throughout the history of (reformed ) Zoroastrianism .Also in all Arahamic religion ) and Zoroastrianism ; the 3 fold division of God, Prophet/s and The People , all joined by the 'light of truth'


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It is based on the primary set of 3 , eg; primary colors in divisions of 3 which makes other sets of 3 and all join to make white .

Or in alchemy ; sulfur, salt and mercury. Its a universal principle - perhaps early church 'constructors' borrowed it from philosophers ?
 

Theodoric

Ad Honorem
Mar 2012
2,746
#63
What does the Trinity mean exactly? I find it confusing that the Bible implies that Jesus does the Millenium Reign and Great White Throne Judgement at separate times, since he is God and has no limitations.
The Trinity (from an early Christian POV, I am less familiar with modern Christianity)
1. God the Father - is not directly knowable, and is beyond time and space, unchangeable.
2. God the Son - AKA The Word/Logos, is the incarnation of God within the physical world, and is the creating agent of that world. The "Let there be light!" is the beginning of the word. Think of The Son as (in a computer simulation metaphor) the hard code that builds it all; the prime mover. Jesus is said to be the incarnation of the Son, or the Word incarnate. As a result, the natural laws created by The Word are an objective fact, and the moral law of The Word Incarnate is objective morality because it comes from the mouth of the very force that created the universe.
3. The Holy Spirit - The breath of God. So while the Son is the word/design, the Holy Spirit is the active force in the universe that sees the design of the word carried out. I am not sure, but I believe the Holy Spirit is the element of God that is prayed to when people pray by their bedside (any really knowledgable Christians confirm?). But I struggled with this one for a bit since my background is Greek philosophy and theology and the whole Father/Son God is something that makes a lot of philosophical sense, but the Holy Spirit to me has always felt like a lesser element; or, an agent of the Word.


The Father and the Son from a philosophical standpoint allows an element of God to be unchangeable and perfect, which would preclude the existence of any activity. Having the son allows the father to remain unchanged at the same time as having an active agent within the physical world. Why the Son is equal to the Father is because in Christian theology all three parts of the Trinity are considered maximal in their value; although this part has been argued throughout the last 2000+ years of history (back to at least Hellenistic Judaism).
 
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Ficino

Ad Honorem
Apr 2012
6,925
Romania
#66
The Trinity (from an early Christian POV, I am less familiar with modern Christianity)
1. God the Father - is not directly knowable, and is beyond time and space, unchangeable.
2. God the Son - AKA The Word/Logos, is the incarnation of God within the physical world, and is the creating agent of that world. The "Let there be light!" is the beginning of the word. Think of The Son as (in a computer simulation metaphor) the hard code that builds it all; the prime mover. Jesus is said to be the incarnation of the Son, or the Word incarnate. As a result, the natural laws created by The Word are an objective fact, and the moral law of The Word Incarnate is objective morality because it comes from the mouth of the very force that created the universe.
3. The Holy Spirit - The breath of God. So while the Son is the word/design, the Holy Spirit is the active force in the universe that sees the design of the word carried out. I am not sure, but I believe the Holy Spirit is the element of God that is prayed to when people pray by their bedside (any really knowledgable Christians confirm?). But I struggled with this one for a bit since my background is Greek philosophy and theology and the whole Father/Son God is something that makes a lot of philosophical sense, but the Holy Spirit to me has always felt like a lesser element; or, an agent of the Word.


The Father and the Son from a philosophical standpoint allows an element of God to be unchangeable and perfect, which would preclude the existence of any activity. Having the son allows the father to remain unchanged at the same time as having an active agent within the physical world. Why the Son is equal to the Father is because in Christian theology all three parts of the Trinity are considered maximal in their value; although this part has been argued throughout the last 2000+ years of history (back to at least Hellenistic Judaism).

From St. John of Damascus' An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Concerning the Holy Trinity: NPNF2-09. Hilary of Poitiers, John of Damascus - Christian Classics Ethereal Library.
 

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,186
Australia
#67
Dr. Bart Ehrman talks a lot about the origin of the Trinity doctrine.
Its 'natural' and comes from the principle , to put it very basically ; ' Momma, Dadda , Bubba .

Depending on your take on this ; it results in matriarchy or patriarchy. According to some philosophers we are in a new era ; Bubba - the age of the child and the individual .

I agree with this .... we seem to be at the stage where the child is big enough to wield some power, but has no sense of responsibility ; sorta like junior getting into the gun cupboard when parents are out .


Or in this case .... things a little more dangerous than a rifle



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Jun 2012
7,280
Malaysia
#68
Out of three major religions of the world (Christianity, Islam and Hindu religion) it is only in Islam the doctrine of Trinity is does not exist.
And so ...

Could be just me, but it seems like someone is trying to initiate the beginings of some insidious personal agenda ... Even managing to spring a crafty way of pushing the Jewish position - which just so happens to be very, very closely similar, indeed we might even say virtually identical, to that of the Islamic one on this particular issue - totally & completely out of his analysis.

Nice try.🙏
 
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Likes: Abraham95

specul8

Ad Honorem
Oct 2016
3,186
Australia
#69
And so ...

Could be just me, but it seems like someone is trying to initiate the beginings of some insidious personal agenda ... Even managing to spring a crafty way of pushing the Jewish position - which just so happens to be very, very closely similar, indeed we might even say virtually identical, to that of the Islamic one on this particular issue - totally & completely out of his analysis.

Nice try.🙏
:think:

are you saying the Jewish position does not have trinitarian aspects ? - sorry if I read you wrong .

The early Christians might have picked up some trinitarian ideas for Judaism itself . Not so much in the exoteric religion and concept of Jahovah as one single God, but more in the esoteric aspects .

In the 'Supernal triad' in the 'world' of Atziluth concept ;

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1562537835702.png


One of the most common correspondences of the triangle of divinity is the holy trinity itself. In Christianity the holy trinity is comprised of the “father”, “the son” and “the holy spirit” which refer to the three aspects of divinity. In Hinduism this trinity is comprised of “Brahma”, “Vishnu” and “Shiva”. In Kabbalah this trinity is comprised of Kether, Chokmah and Binah. Overall the triangle represents the three aspects of divinity, the divine itself and divine consciousness.

The Triangle of Divinity
 
Jun 2012
7,280
Malaysia
#70
In Judaism, the idea of God as a duality or trinity is considered heretical. It is even considered by some as polytheistic. According to Judaic belief, the Torah rules out a trinitarian God in Deuteronomy 6:4, as thus: 'Hear Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one.' That I consider as essentially identical in meaning to the Islamic 'La ilaha il allah' (i. e. 'There is no God but Allah).

That is how I understand it. AFAIK also, kabbala doctrine is not really considered a part of mainstream Judaism.
 
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