HomoSexuality in the Roman Legions

Jan 2015
3,538
Australia
It should only take you a moment to read my posts, too, Caesar.

And as for what you have said about poets, again your ignorance of Roman culture is shown. Poets were not only known to a "hyper-educated" elite. Proof of this is that references to people like Virgil and Ovid and their verses are extremely common in Roman graffiti, which, as modern scholars see it, were made by ordinary people of the lower class.

And as I have said before, the biography that Suetonius wrote about Virgil proves the argument I made: "whenever he appeared in public in Rome, where he very rarely went, he would take refuge in the nearest house, to avoid those who followed and pointed him out."

So, Virgil was a figure of enormous celebrity in his day, much more than those little politicians with whom you are so obsessed.

And again I violate my promises, just because I can't stand to see someone so hopelessly out of his depth. Won't happen a fourth time, I swear!
Remind me, how did things end for Ovid? Who was Virgil’s openly male partner? Virgil being a recluse is noteworthy, but not for the reasons you think. These were people known by repute when they were known at all, in the same way famous actors or playwrights were “known”, but whose poetry was still primarily aimed at and read by the upper class elites. You can have great fame, but zero dignitas. Public office or public life relied on dignitas. Someone like Virgil would have not lasted long trying to assume such a place, especially if he took on an openly male lover (which he didn’t). At any rate, neither of these two were public figures with openly male lovers.
 
Apr 2019
27
Brazil
Remind me, how did things end for Ovid?
What does that have to do with the argument that I was making, that he and Virgil were big celebrities of their days? Do all big celebrities get to live great lives?

Plus, Ovid is one of the two exclusively heterosexual poets of the Augustine era (the other being Propertius), so you shouldn't use his fate to support your weird obsession with Rome being homophobic if that's what you're trying to do.

Your method of debate proves that you know nothing of what you are talking about and that your arguments lack any factual or logical rigor, any respect for the truth. You simply concoct facts and arguments on the spot in order to win a debate. You misread and misrepresent any piece of data and text and distort it to make truly outlandish claims and innuendo.

Who was Virgil’s openly male partner?
Read Suetonius's text - he names two. You didn't know that?

And I have to laugh at the phrasing here: "openly male partner". Were people at Rome in the closet about being male?

Virgil being a recluse is noteworthy, but not for the reasons you think.
He was not a recluse - he was just not keen on being a mega-celebrity. Not all people are made for fame. Just ask Britney Spears.

What are you trying to tell me - that Virgil was hiding around in order to avoid getting gay-bashed? Is that really what you're getting out of Suetonius' article????

These were people known by repute when they were known at all
That people would follow him around and point to him wherever and whenever he went out at Rome without quite knowing he that was, beggars belief. If you're going to make extraordinary claims like that, at least try to get some support in the sources. You never do that, despite the fact that the number of books and articles available on this subject are endless. And as often you're ignoring arguments you can't refute, which reeks of bad faith. As I said, his verses and those of other Augustine poets are frequently recited in graffiti, which modern scholars have taken as proof that many in the lower classes were well versed in the literature of the time.

in the same way famous actors or playwrights were “known”, but whose poetry was still primarily aimed at and read by the upper class elites. You can have great fame, but zero dignitas. Public office or public life relied on dignitas. Someone like Virgil would have not lasted long trying to assume such a place, especially if he took on an openly male lover (which he didn’t). At any rate, neither of these two were public figures with openly male lovers.
Number of sources cited: zero. For all I know, you are simply inventing these things because that is what you want to believe in. And to be honest, that's what I think of you.
 
Last edited:

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
26,855
Italy, Lago Maggiore
Two notes about this thread to keep it within the rules.

1. Cite sources.
2. Avoid personal direct comments about an other participant to the discussion.
 

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