Hong Kong protests thread

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Closed
Apr 2010
34,429
T'Republic of Yorkshire
I don't think that S. Korea or Japan would want to accept hundreds of thousands of Chinese all at once...
Besides, China would only lose it in the short-term....if the economic development of China continues for another 30 years or so, with or without Hong Kong, they would still be an economic juggernaut.
Neither Japan nor South Korea will accept mass immigration from Hong Kong under these circumstances. Given how closely tied their economies are to China, they will not want to seem to be havens for Hong Kong dissidents, and open themselves up either to pressure or sanctions from Beijing.
 
Likes: robto
Jun 2014
6,068
Lisbon, Portugal
Nothing of your links contradict my point...and I know very much your point.

For the majority of Chinese people, their country doesn't feel like living in a prison, that' my point. If you want to us to discuss about the human rights issues in Xinjiang - which is nothing that will probably happen in Hong Kong and unrelated to it - we can discuss.
 
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Jul 2019
283
New Jersey
Oh ok, that's very likely to happen in the worst case scenario



No, that's not my point. Millions of people in China are not being starved to death; other millions are not being killed by fanatical students; and more than 80% of the population is not living under the poverty line, that's what I meant by saying that China doesn't live in Mao's time anymore.

You can pinpoint all the real, and fake, human rights abuses done by the authoritarian communist regime in China, but the point is, China has lifted 800 million people out of poverty, it created the biggest middle class population in the world, and under its rule, we are witnessing one of the most economic miracles we ever saw since the Industrial Revolution - and that's what the Chinese public knows and are thankful for it. That's it.
I'll grant you that things aren't as bad as they were in Mao's time. Nonetheless, the political repression in the PRC is bad enough as to stifle the people of Hong Kong, who are used to having rights in the Anglo-American tradition. Hong Kong's resource is it's people, and those people will leave when the PRC rolls in.
 
Jun 2014
6,068
Lisbon, Portugal
I'll grant you that things aren't as bad as they were in Mao's time. Nonetheless, the political repression in the PRC is bad enough as to stifle the people of Hong Kong, who are used to having rights in the Anglo-American tradition. Hong Kong's resource is it's people, and those people will leave when the PRC rolls in.
The people of Hong Kong don't want to lose the civil rights they inherited from the British (the British only gave those very rights after the second world war, and out of fear of communist agitation), and that's something that will give a headache to Beijing.
 
Feb 2011
6,453
Because there are a lot of Fifty-Centsers infiltrating forums like this.
Why don't you ever use the term American cent infiltrators? Why only fifty cent infiltrators? Robto lived in China just like me. What we see do not always correspond to what you hear. That automatically means people like us are always subject to a fifty-cent investigation? As far as I'm concerned, if you start implying people are government agents because what they experience is different from what you expect, you better start spreading the hate and paranoia evenly.
 
Feb 2011
6,453
Yes, you could say it's propaganda, making it at most in the same degree of questionability as Marco Rubio "we lied, we cheated, we stole":
As for Organ Harvesting:
The organ harvesting story surfaced stemming from accusations that Sujiatun harvested FLG prisoners. However, this was disproven by Harry Wu whose team secretely investigated Sujiatun and found nothing of the sort, it’s just a normal hospital.
“I arranged for people inside China to visit the Sujiatun scene. From March 12, the investigators canvassed the entire Sujiatun area. On March 17, the investigators visited two military barracks in Sujiatun. On March 27, the investigators secretly visited the Chinese Medical Blood Clotting Treatment Center in Sujiatun. On March 29, the investigators went to the Kongjiashan prison near Sujiatun. None of the aforementioned investigations revealed any trace of the concentration camp. The investigators provided me with photographs and written reports on their investigation and results on March 15, 17, 27, 29, 30 and April 4.”
And before you doubt the accuracy of Harry Wu’s investigation, let me say that Harry Wu was imprisoned by the PRC before, Harry continued being an outspoken critic of the PRC, and he was on friendly terms with the FLG. Once he released the report that the organ harvesting stories are filled with BS, the FLG released smear articles on Harry Wu until Harry Wu used his FLG connections to put a stop to it.
The organ harvesting story resurfaced more recently from London, in which mainstream media claimed that an “independent” tribunal claimed that China was still engaged in massive harvesting of FLG organs. Let’s see how ‘independent’ they are. The tribunal was set up by the “International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse”.
The executive director is Susie Hughes, who works for the Epoch Times, a FLG mouthpiece: Management | The International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China
Second person is Margo MacVicar, who works for the Epoch Times, a FLG mouthpiece: Margo Macvicar - The Epoch Times
Third person is Rebecca (Becky) James, who already had a prior history of pushing the organ harvesting narrative and is an organizer for the FLG in UK: The Third Round Table Briefing on Organ Harvesting in China - The APPG for International Freedom of Religion or Belief
Fourth person is Andy Moody, who is another FLG member: https://www.tasteoflifemag.com/a-man-and-his-mirror/
Fifth person is Victoria Ledwidge, a prominent FLG member: New York: Falun Dafa Practitioners from Around the World Participate in Character Formation and Share Their Joy | Falun Dafa - Minghui.org
Sixth person is David Tompkins, who works for the Epoch Times, a FLG mouthpiece: David Tompkins - The Epoch Times

It's called "Atrocity Propaganda". It's been used to make ridiculous news such as the idea that China censored Winnie the Pooh, obviously false:


To much more damaging lies such as starting wars based on questionable or completely false information spread by the media:
Such as the Spanish American War, which started with yellow journalism blaming the Spanish about the sinking of the USS Maine
To the Vietnam War with the Tonkin incident which blamed the North Vietnamese for attacking American vessels (declassified too late the the North Vietnamese were responding to an American attack in the first place)
To the 1st Iraq War in which the Nayirah testimony presented a false witness to lie about how Iraqi soldiers were killing babies
To the 2nd Iraq War in which we falsely stated that they were making WMDs.
Don't be taken in by the Atrocity Propaganda.
 
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Likes: spirocate
Feb 2011
6,453
As for the HK protest itself, there are some false news too, such as this elderly lady yelling at the protestors to go away, but mainstream media spinned it as if she was a part of the protest making a stand against the police:

As least the protestors took it reasonably well, unlike how these other protestors treated this old man (not exactly 'atrocity propaganda' because it simply wasn't reported, but it probably would be if it was the other way around):
Funnily enough a lot of Chinese thought the elderly man was a famous mathematician, but said mathematician said on his weibo that it's not him, just somebody who looked like him: Sina Visitor System

Mainstream media isn't really presenting the 'other' side in which people in places such as Shenzhen are scared that HKongers could straightout murder them and skip town to HK in no time. After all that's more or less why the extradition bill (proposed by the HK government, not by the Chinese Central Government) got started, because a boyfriend murdered his girlfriend, stuffed her body in her own suitcase, and then skipped town to HK.
 
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Jun 2014
6,068
Lisbon, Portugal
As for Organ Harvesting:
Ok, you did your homework and thanks for it.

Yes, there is a campaign against China on the part of the western media and we always should take any western news about China with a huge grain of salt.

Having said that, the Chinese media, such as the CGTN or China Daily, are the mouthpieces of Beijing and are not in anyway neutral or objective.
I live in China, and while I have so many positive things about the country, I do recognize the overall authoritarianism; lack of transparency; lack of personal, religious and press freedoms; and severe ethnic discrimination, that exist in the country and it's rarely addressed in Chinese media or even between Chinese people in social gatherings.

I think the only piece of English-language news that might be more grounded when it comes to reporting the Hong Kong crisis is the South China Morning Post. Even though they are very biased towards democracy and the defense for the freedom of the press, they seem to a little more objective than the other news media out there covering the protests.
 
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Feb 2011
6,453
Very true, I'm just saying criticism needs to be accurate, and criticism one reads needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Because if you go up to a Chinese guy and criticize his government for censoring Winnie the Pooh, he's not going to take you seriously. Because here's the thing, a lot of times when we criticize China over things that are obviously incorrect, they know. It happens so often it's become a running joke called the Foolyou agency.

Foolyou agency is a made up agency in which "Chinese spies" act like critics of China sent out into foreign countries (mostly the United States) to spread false information about China, to make China look weak/fragile/about to collapse. Ergo China could rise in power and the Western Powers wouldn't do anything about it. So you get memes like this:

^That's the guy who predicted China would collapse in 2006, 2011, 2012, 2016, and 2017.

Anyway, here's what a Uyghur man captured at an airport terminal. When asked why he had to undergo extra checks, instead of saying "it's a random security check", the terminal lady said "you're a Xinjiang person":
So the guy completely lost it, yelling things like "We're Chinese too!" or "Why don't you repeat that again!". This probably wasn't the first time this happened to him, not by far, otherwise he wouldn't have made it that big a deal. Reminds me of a lot of Middle Eastern/Indian friends I know of who had to go through the exact same thing here in the States.

Here's another random inspection of an Uyghur lady:
From what I gather, the police officer played it smart, and said it was a 'random inspection' and that he already inspected four rooms prior to hers (and I believe he did, if only just for show, and maybe even to fool himself). And the Uyghur lady probably would have played along but the youngest police of the bunch said something rude. Because the Uyghur lady had gone through one too many 'random' inspections, it was the straw that broke the camels back and that's when she started filming the video. The older police tried to calm her down.
 
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