Honoring CSA Soliders

Should Confederate Soliders Be Honored?

  • Yes

    Votes: 52 59.1%
  • No

    Votes: 27 30.7%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 9 10.2%

  • Total voters
    88
Status
Closed

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
3,892
Caribbean
based on that incorrect assumption, go on to state that the average Confederate soldier didn't care about slavery.
Since all of this is following my posts - let's clear out the straw men . What I actually wrote is that the the motives of the soldiers on any battlefield.are fighting, first of all, to survive. Their motivations are often completely disconnected to those of the politicians who put them there.

Since, you probably can't quote any southern soldier saying he is so happy to be defending slavery, you probably should be so quick to assume who it is doing the assuming.
 
Likes: Edratman

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,858
Republika Srpska
It is a bit of a popular myth that only a tiny percentage of people in the antebellum south owned slaves. Many people wrongly assume that, and based on that incorrect assumption, go on to state that the average Confederate soldier didn't care about slavery.
Indeed.
Some quotes:

Lieutenant of 28th Mississippi: "This country without slave labor would be completely worthless. We can only live and exist by that species of labor: and hence I am willing to fight to the last."
Captain of 8th Alabama: "Fight forever, rather than submit to freeing negroes among us. We are fighting for rights and property bequeathed to us by our ancestors"
Louisiana artilleryman: "I never want to see the day when a negro is put on an equality with a white person. There is too many freed niggers now to suit me, let alone having four millions"
A Confederate from Kentucky: "We are fighting for our liberty against tyrants of the North who want to destroy slavery"

I am certain there are many more, but these are the ones I was able to find right now.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
3,892
Caribbean
Because the Allies conducted a policy of Denazification. The South was never de-Confederatized.
De-Nazification? The US and the USSR just imported them and put them to work. Have you ever heard of Operation Paperclip? Werner von Braun has a statute and he is both a Nazi and a lethal slave-driver. They haven't even de-Nazified NASA.

And yes there was de-confederatization. It's called the Fourteenth Amendment.

Cultural genocide usually fails. That's why there are still Jews.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,858
Republika Srpska
There was no cultural de-confederatization. Sure, the US abolished slavery, but didn't eliminate the pro-Confederate elements in the South, elements that started the myth of the Lost Cause. They didn't convince the Southern people that the cause they were fighting for was wrong. An average white Southerners in the 1880s believed that the Confederacy was right. An average German in the 1960s did not believe Nazi Germany was right.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
3,892
Caribbean
Indeed.
Some quotes:
Lieutenant of 28th Mississippi: "This country without slave labor would be completely worthless. We can only live and exist by that species of labor: and hence I am willing to fight to the last."
Captain of 8th Alabama: "Fight forever, rather than submit to freeing negroes among us. We are fighting for rights and property bequeathed to us by our ancestors"
Louisiana artilleryman: "I never want to see the day when a negro is put on an equality with a white person. There is too many freed niggers now to suit me, let alone having four millions"
A Confederate from Kentucky: "We are fighting for our liberty against tyrants of the North who want to destroy slavery"

I am certain there are many more, but these are the ones I was able to find right now.
Thank you.. But the only one who says he is fighting for slavery is not identified as a CSA soldier by you.

The first three are not soldiers, but officers, and very much the same kind of general rhetoric I can find among northern politicians and editorials. This is especially true of the second and third quote.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,858
Republika Srpska
I do not dispute your point that the main motivation for the CSA soldiers was after all defending their homes and property, but we should also not forget that these soldiers and generally the Southern people were aware that the Confederacy fought to preserve slavery and they supported that because they believed slavery was an integral part of their society.
 

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
3,892
Caribbean
Tbut didn't eliminate the pro-Confederate elements in the South, elements that started the myth of the Lost Cause.
Eliminate elements? Those are human beings.

What do you mean they didn't kill everybody who didn't parrot your slogans?

And try to keep in mind, it is your opinion that these things are myth. IMO, your arguments are based on myth, primarily the illegality of secession. I call that the Lost Clause myth.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
2,858
Republika Srpska
Eliminate elements? Those are human beings.

What do you mean they didn't kill everybody who didn't parrot your slogans?
I never said kill. You can do it by spreading pro-Union propaganda, by teaching ordinary Southerners why is slavery wrong, by informing them that the Confederacy started the war, that blacks deserve human rights, etc. I mean, you would probably not be able to convince the older generations, but the younger generations...perhaps. Now, of course, this whole enterprise would probably also be condemned by certain elements in the North as well.

And try to keep in mind, it is your opinion that these things are myth. IMO, your arguments are based on myth, primarily the illegality of secession. I call that the Lost Clause myth.
The legality of secession is not really the heart of the Lost Cause. The main elements are:
1. the South didn't fight for slavery
2. the South only lost because the North had more resources
3. the Southern soldier was more valiant than his Northern counterpart
stuff like that.
 
Likes: Zip

Code Blue

Ad Honorem
Feb 2015
3,892
Caribbean
The Confederate pantheon, by comparison, initiated a rebellion which failed; therefore, the lands in which they led the rebellion
While informally, they accepted the label of rebels, but only so far as they were rebelling against illegal tyranny.

The main reason this argument survives is the Constitution. There is no clause in which the state surrendered the rights they declared in the Declaration. IMO, if not for that, there'd be no argument.

In fact no Confederate was convicted of treachery. This was because significant legal obstacles
There was no legal obstacle. They could have put Davis in front of a military commission and by the end of the week, he would have been at the end of a rope. There was a "legal obstacle" to a civilian trial. His defense that secession was legal would have gotten him acquitted. Where you said "politics," now you have something. He was pardoned (after three years in jail), because that was the best way to smooth things over.

I notice you didn't address the original inquiry when I said you post was inaccurate and asked how you quantify that the south dominated the government. Have you reconsidered that.
 
Jan 2018
326
Sturgeon Lake Mn.
Because a person wasn't convicted of treason doesn't mean he was not, in fact, a traitor. The definition of traitor is based on actions not being convicted of those actions. Some things are simply evident; there was a southern rebellion, after all. And people took part in it.
 
Status
Closed

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