Horses in history.

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
@deaf tuner
You are mistaken. We do have multiple 1000 year old 2000 year old breeds.
The Arabs go back 5000 years; recorded; OF COURSE do you have influences, like in the medieval time a lot of Arab blood went in, but you can look up some:

Sorraia, Protugal; nealry extinct; not treated as wild-horse; but DNA showed it is;

Camargue Horse; France; already reported by the Romans

Shetlandpony; 2500 years old;

Dulmer Pony; documented as race in the medieval time (since then they are protected in Germany as a semi-wild-horse); but horses in their area were already reported by Romans; it is basically a Germanic horse^^

Connemara; Irish; ca. 2500 years old

Ardennes; France; already used by the Romans;

Asturcons; Spain; already used by the Romans;

Mallorquin; Spain; very old as well;

Pottok; Basque; very old;

and not to forget the Dartmoor Pony – the last post-ice-age-pony – ca. 3000 years long already domesticated

There are more...

But for YOU I do have the Bardigiano; Italy; that is an old Belgian breed/relative of your war-horse you road during Roman times; that got cross-bred with other horses (like Haflinger/old German breed) and on top of that they used it for creating mules!
So if you want to do something about the horses you left in Ital – that is your chance now.^^



I second that, as there are multiple races that are from the Mongols. One funny one: The Lyngshest. As the Lyngshest is also called Nordland-shest/horse, it is a Norwegian horse and one guy basically rescued it, by running all over norhtern Norway to find some horses and it is a Tarpan/Mongolian/something/something cross breed. ^^ So Mongolian horses "somehow" ended up in north Norway.

While I am not sure what the DNA tests on that breeds are and horse organizations are a family of their own. In the close future our wonderful Rhenish horse will be a Saxon... only for 100 years that breed existed.^^


Horselover1 – what is with Greek breeds? Like the Macedonian Mountain pony? Could that work as a Thracian horse?
The Hungarians are no nomads anymore for ca. 1100 years. They had kings and cities and all of that in the medieval time already.
Ryanx, the OP was about the so called "thracian horse" that we don't exactly know what was, and my post was related to that plus the idea of "war horse".

IDK if You remarked, but practically all the breeds You mentioned are local, often quite geographically isolated breeds, and they have generally more or less nothing with "war horses".

And that is because "war horse", in a large part of the European history wasn't a breed, but a quality: generally, one bought/raised/trained/used a horse as a war horse (or labour, or cart) for it's qualities, not for it's (supposed) aparteneance to a breed.

The famous destrier wasn't a breed. It was a type.
 
Sep 2012
1,095
Tarkington, Texas
The Keen Edge, Steppe Horses were fed on grass. They could move to another pasture on the steppes when the grass was gone. European Horses were fed grain and hay.

Pruitt
 
Apr 2017
138
Bayreuth
Ryanx, the OP was about the so called "thracian horse" that we don't exactly know what was, and my post was related to that plus the idea of "war horse".

IDK if You remarked, but practically all the breeds You mentioned are local, often quite geographically isolated breeds, and they have generally more or less nothing with "war horses".

And that is because "war horse", in a large part of the European history wasn't a breed, but a quality: generally, one bought/raised/trained/used a horse as a war horse (or labour, or cart) for it's qualities, not for it's (supposed) aparteneance to a breed.

The famous destrier wasn't a breed. It was a type.
Instead that you go... Hey, thanks man – I looked them up and had a great horse-day on the net...
Seriously. But message recieved – was the last time.

Ryanx. I dont know maybe. I dont found so much about thracian horses, just some words, but i think they are lie no reliable source. Yes, hungarians are no nomads, but their horses cant just disappear like that.
The problem is that the Thracians are problematic at all, as the only thing we got is what we find in the ground – and many things are declared Thracian who are not at all and to be sure you have to do a DNA test.

And concerning the Hungarian horses. The problem is similar to Mongolian horses or Arabian horses. As we are horse-country in Europe, we constantly developed horses and mixed and bred or extinct.
To 100% did the horses went somewhere, but that can go extremely fast.

Modern example; The Rhenish horse breed is ca. 120-150 years old. Now their horse organization melts with the Saxon organization – means that in the future the Rhenish horse will disappear (because they will mix the Saxon with it) and the original breed can not be called anymore Rhenish horse – and will progress as well based on the requirements as sports horses.

I share your interest in old European horse breeds or animals in general, but it has to be scientific and that can have unforeseen outcomes.

But where did you found that words about Thracian horses?
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
Instead that you go... Hey, thanks man – I looked them up and had a great horse-day on the net...
Seriously. But message recieved – was the last time.
In other words ... not arguments ... just an opinion on myself.
 

Dan Howard

Ad Honorem
Aug 2014
4,759
Australia
@deaf tuner
You are mistaken. We do have multiple 1000 year old 2000 year old breeds.
The Arabs go back 5000 years; recorded; OF COURSE do you have influences, like in the medieval time a lot of Arab blood went in, but you can look up some:

Sorraia, Protugal; nealry extinct; not treated as wild-horse; but DNA showed it is;

Camargue Horse; France; already reported by the Romans

Shetlandpony; 2500 years old;

Dulmer Pony; documented as race in the medieval time (since then they are protected in Germany as a semi-wild-horse); but horses in their area were already reported by Romans; it is basically a Germanic horse^^

Connemara; Irish; ca. 2500 years old

Ardennes; France; already used by the Romans;

Asturcons; Spain; already used by the Romans;

Mallorquin; Spain; very old as well;

Pottok; Basque; very old;

and not to forget the Dartmoor Pony – the last post-ice-age-pony – ca. 3000 years long already domesticated

There are more..
Not really. Those horses today are not the same as they were when first domesticated. They have undergone millennia of selective breeding. Just because they still have the same name doesn't mean that they are the same horse. Many of the above modern horses would be unrecognisable to our ancestors.
 
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Apr 2017
138
Bayreuth
In other words ... not arguments ... just an opinion on myself.
Skill is the word you are looking for. People of specific professions obtain such.
So stop try to insult my intelligence or that was the last time we talked. What is unfair of me - as I do not treat others here the same way who try the same - but I think you are a better person. THAT was opinion.

Not really. Those horses today are not the same as they were when first domesticated. They have undergone millennia of selective breeding. Just because they still have the same name doesn't mean that they are the same horse. Many of the above modern horses would be unrecognisable to our ancestors.
Yes and no – there is really more to it sometimes.
You do not live in the same house people did 1000 years ago – but actually you do, if you know what I mean. That is why I think – we should not be to harsh in classifications and fair rules for all.
And that horse organizations are really good. Better even than dog organizations, because they run on special rules who is who and what is what. They are very progressive if it comes down to DNA testing and all of that.
After all - we talk here 1000-2000 years. Not the stone-age.^^
 
Feb 2019
845
Pennsylvania, US
Not really. Those horses today are not the same as they were when first domesticated. They have undergone millennia of selective breeding. Just because they still have the same name doesn't mean that they are the same horse. Many of the above modern horses would be unrecognisable to our ancestors.
^ Yes!

Many horse breeds are becoming unrecognizable from what they were only 10 years ago... they can change the form and function so quickly that sometimes unless you know what breed they are calling a horse, you really couldn't guess. All the “sports” body types, the taller, slimmer frames. Something beautiful and dual purpose (driving/working and riding) breeds are being wrecked (just my opinion).
 

Chlodio

Forum Staff
Aug 2016
4,471
Dispargum
Moderator hat on. Ryanx, Deaf Tuner, your exchanges are becoming unproductive. You're both going down a road no one is going to win. Both of you disengage now. Take a couple of hours off. When you come back you can talk to other people in the thread but leave each other alone.
 

deaf tuner

Ad Honoris
Oct 2013
14,533
Europix
Moderator hat on. Ryanx, Deaf Tuner, your exchanges are becoming unproductive. You're both going down a road no one is going to win. Both of you disengage now. Take a couple of hours off. When you come back you can talk to other people in the thread but leave each other alone.
Ok, I'll comply.

_____________________
(well, knowing myself, it's more honest to say: I promise I will do my best to comply)
 
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