How come Spain's colonies didn't do so well but Britain's colonies did well?

Dec 2014
5,776
Spain
#71
Oklahoma was an area in the old French Province of Louisiane. The Spanish never settled there.

Well Pruit I don´t know what do you want to say with "Settled"... Are you talking Spaniards never took possession ... you are wrong. They took possesion in a Law act in 1540. If you are talking about population.. you are right... as the French never settled in Oklahoma. But Spaniards arrived to Oklahoma (East-West-North-South side sooner than French).. It is a fact... so if what you say it is French arrived to Oklahoma SOONER than Spaniards you are very very wrong. Spaniards were the first European to be in Oklahoma.

An Oklahoma History organization page is very clear: Spaniards were the first european to be in the State:

When they came, they were looking for gold and, as had become their custom, for Native peoples to convert to Christianity. Spaniards came northward out of Mexico to investigate New Mexico in the mid-1500s. Their efforts were prompted by rumors of seven golden cities, called "Cíbola," which Friar Marcos de Niza said he had discovered there in 1539. These towns, with buildings said to be made of gold, quickly assumed an important status in the Spanish ethos. Francisco Vásquez de Coronado left Mexico in 1540 to look for Cíbola in the northern region. From New Mexico in April 1541 his troupe went eastward, looking for a wealthy place called "Gran Quivira," and they crossed through the Texas and Oklahoma panhandles before arriving in late July in Kansas at a Wichita village presumed to be their destination. They found no gold. Ending his trip in disappointment, Coronado returned to New Mexico and then to Mexico in 1542.

And it was not the only Spanish Expedition to be in Oklahoma... Hernando de Soto was in Oklahoma in 1539..when not other Europeans had not even a piece of land in North America (it is a fact). And in 1592-1593 other Spanish Expedition (Francisco Leyva de Bonilla and Antonio Gutiérrez de Humaña).

The different Spanish Expeditions to Oklahoma (it is better to say through Oklahoma) gave to Spain (the King of Castilla and León) the sovereignty .

From an Oklahoma page:


More importantly for Spain, the activities of these intrepid explorers over a fifty-year period made it possible for that nation to lay tentative claim to the region, despite the fact that ownership seemed to offer little in the way of economic compensation. The vast area that contained present Oklahoma technically remained French Louisiana from 1682 to 1763.


So Oklahoma belonged to Spain from 1539 to 1682 and from 1763 to 1804. But if you say.. French arrived sooner.. you are wrong. If you say French defeated the Spanish Empire in Oklahoma.. also you are wrong (not war at all caused by Oklahoma... Spaniards arrived and took possession... 100 years later, Frenchmen arrived and took posession...80 years laters, Spaniards arrived again and took possesion.. That was all). Only Yankees settled in Oklahoma... nor Spaniards nor French wanted Oklahoma for nothing.

The Franco-Spanish rivalry in the New World was about to come to an end. In 1763, after the end of a major European war, France transferred Louisiana to Spain. Little really changed in the interior, which had generally suffered benign neglect by the governments of both nations. In the 1770s Spanish authorities sent Athanase de Mézières y Clugny, commander of the military and trading post at Natchitoches, into the Red River region to visit various Wichita bands, and in 1771 he concluded a treaty with the Wichita proper, who, with their Comanche allies, had been harassing the Texas settlements. In 1778 he visited the Twin Villages and tried to induce Comanche leaders to come there for a conference, to no avail. Most of the Spanish efforts in the borderlands along the Red River, then, were aimed at keeping the Wichita bands and the Comanche from attacking the Texas settlements.

in 1784 Don Pedro Vial in 1792 went thought Oklahoma Pandhandle.

A significant legacy derived from the presence of the Spanish and French. Maps and descriptions accumulated over two hundred years, and these are still examined by scholars for information on a variety of topics ranging from environmental change to ethnic groupings to population movement. One of the most interesting legacies of the European rivalry for the interior has been the intense interest it continues to provoke among historians and archaeologists concerning "the exact route" of each expedition. This has served those who love "history by the inch" and has also served a variety of public relations purposes, with towns in New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, as well as in the American South, making claims of their area having been explored by Spanish conquistadors or French voyageurs.


Regads
 
Dec 2014
5,776
Spain
#72
Since you seem to be a great proponent of the 'White Legend' this seems a very strange comment.




Please do explain why?

What is it about 'Protestants' ( I presume you actually mean non-Catholics) so racist?

What makes the British so racist?
Maybe the History?

Can you say please the origin of racism in USA? Is it not a British Heritage? Maybe Dutch? But Dutch Dominions in North America were smaller than Spanish-French-British Dominions. So.. I don´t think so.
Always I read the origin of Racism in USA is a British heritage. And many different causes according with the book you read. It is funny in one of the book I read.. it has the theory the racism in USA arrived with the British because of the word America..

America is a word not matched nor with English language, nor with British population or with Protestantism at all.. First time America word appeared it was next the word CASTILLA in a German map about New World... however.. nor Spanish, nor Portuguese, nor French nor Dutch used never the word.. all of them prefered the word West Indies. In fact, the Spaniards used the word Tierra Firme de las Indias Occidentales (West Indies Main land) to talk about the Continent.
When British arrived to North America... years later... their settlers begun to use (in a slow process the word "American" to name themselves...) till point they really believed they "were" and "are" the only "american"...
An interesting theory about the origin of racism in USA... I don´t know if it is truth.. but it is a theory.. In any case, the Racism in America have a British origin. Not French, or Dutch or Spanish.
 
May 2011
13,380
Navan, Ireland
#74
Maybe the History?.
What history?

Can you say please the origin of racism in USA?.
You are the one making the claim not me

Is it not a British Heritage? .
Why would it be? what in British society made it racist? and why did this 'cause' racism in the USA?


Maybe Dutch? But Dutch Dominions in North America were smaller than Spanish-French-British Dominions. So.. I don´t think so..
Why not? and also way does racism have to start with a particular national group?

Always I read the origin of Racism in USA is a British heritage..
I am sure you did or at least that's what you wanted it to say.

And many different causes according with the book you read. It is funny in one of the book I read.. it has the theory the racism in USA arrived with the British because of the word America..

America is a word not matched nor with English language, nor with British population or with Protestantism at all.. First time America word appeared it was next the word CASTILLA in a German map about New World... however.. nor Spanish, nor Portuguese, nor French nor Dutch used never the word.. all of them prefered the word West Indies. In fact, the Spaniards used the word Tierra Firme de las Indias Occidentales (West Indies Main land) to talk about the Continent.
When British arrived to North America... years later... their settlers begun to use (in a slow process the word "American" to name themselves...) till point they really believed they "were" and "are" the only "american"....
Rambling about the origin of the use of the word 'America' (as opposed to the names of the States) really doesn't explain anything.

An interesting theory about the origin of racism in USA.
No its nothing of the sort.


... I don´t know if it is truth.. .
That's apparent.


but it is a theory...
Sorry no its not it explains nothing

In any case, the Racism in America have a British origin. Not French, or Dutch or Spanish .
Why?

Simply answer the question.
 
#75
Maybe the History?

Can you say please the origin of racism in USA? Is it not a British Heritage? Maybe Dutch? But Dutch Dominions in North America were smaller than Spanish-French-British Dominions. So.. I don´t think so.
Always I read the origin of Racism in USA is a British heritage. And many different causes according with the book you read. It is funny in one of the book I read.. it has the theory the racism in USA arrived with the British because of the word America..

America is a word not matched nor with English language, nor with British population or with Protestantism at all.. First time America word appeared it was next the word CASTILLA in a German map about New World... however.. nor Spanish, nor Portuguese, nor French nor Dutch used never the word.. all of them prefered the word West Indies. In fact, the Spaniards used the word Tierra Firme de las Indias Occidentales (West Indies Main land) to talk about the Continent.
When British arrived to North America... years later... their settlers begun to use (in a slow process the word "American" to name themselves...) till point they really believed they "were" and "are" the only "american"...
An interesting theory about the origin of racism in USA... I don´t know if it is truth.. but it is a theory.. In any case, the Racism in America have a British origin. Not French, or Dutch or Spanish.
I would also like very much to know how racism in America has a British origin.
 
Feb 2016
3,836
Japan
#76
America’s attitude to race developed over time. As did Britain’s. And they developed differently. So America’s racism originated in the USA and I’d say is almost entirely based on its history of slavery.

Racism itself is as a concept is very old. Older than Britain. So how it could be originated there is anyone’s guess.
Spain was also a highly racist society, and still is in many ways... so if Martins theory is correct Britain must have held huge cultural power and influence over Spain... which I think we all agree has never been the case.
 
#77
America’s attitude to race developed over time. As did Britain’s. And they developed differently. So America’s racism originated in the USA and I’d say is almost entirely based on its history of slavery.

Racism itself is as a concept is very old. Older than Britain. So how it could be originated there is anyone’s guess.
Spain was also a highly racist society, and still is in many ways... so if Martins theory is correct Britain must have held huge cultural power and influence over Spain... which I think we all agree has never been the case.
Maybe we can blame the Duke of Wellington. He was a protestant/anglo/racist if anybody.
 
Dec 2014
5,776
Spain
#78
America’s attitude to race developed over time. As did Britain’s. And they developed differently. So America’s racism originated in the USA and I’d say is almost entirely based on its history of slavery.

Racism itself is as a concept is very old. Older than Britain. So how it could be originated there is anyone’s guess.
Spain was also a highly racist society, and still is in many ways... so if Martins theory is correct Britain must have held huge cultural power and influence over Spain... which I think we all agree has never been the case.
Ok Edric.. I can agree with you.. but the origin of the USA racims society.. it came from British colonies... I'm sure you'll agree with me that racism in South Carolina or Maryland does not have its origin in the Spanish conquistadors or in the French explorers ... as the racism in Texas doesn´t come from Spain or in Illinois from France.
The origin it is in British settlers (not in the Spanish or the French). I know the slavery institution was different in Spain than in Britain... but if both countries had slavery... why the racism extended in USA? I think the origin is British (not Spanish or French) and Protestant. Of course, I can be wrong... if we can prove the racism in USA have the origin in Texas or Arizona.. but didn´t.
It is very clear when we studied States as Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida... Illinois.. Whilst those States belonged to Spain and France... not "racist" issue at all...the racial issue only begun when Anglo-Americans settled there (not before).
 

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