How did Arabization happen among the rural illiterate non Arab Peasantry

Jul 2016
18
null
the evidence has been presented to u by AncientA.. i didnt want to repeat that
Your friend, AncientA, the bearer of the evidence, is doubting its accuracy.


Depends on who the arabs really are. those i consider arabs were the first to convert to chrisitianity. period.
Any reliable source would tell you that Armenia was the first Christian Kingdom. Your "considerations" are irrelevant.


tribalism?
And many other factors. Look it up!


First of all "arabian" peninsula is a wrong term considering that arabia was in jordan. for one thing the gulf of aqaba was referred to as the arab gulf or the lihyanite gulf, once again proving that arabs lived in southern levant not the "arabian" peninsula.
second: there is no ethnitciy called "arabian".. either u are an arab or u are not.
It is not a wrong term man... The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't justify your proposals. How bout we change the whole naming of geographical regions around the world just because we don't like them then?

Yes... and since arabic was spoken in jordan, saudis are too arabized.
Most of Jordan is part of Arabia. Don't let resent colonial divisions fool you. Saudi Arabia lies in Arabia, theretofore, the Arabic language is native to Arabia. The southern parts of Arabia is another story.


these two are religous communites not individual ethnicities.
If you have spent some time reading what I've posted, you wouldn't have said that. I am offended.


again u mix religious communites with ethnic communities.
Same as the above.

A saudi bedouin is exactly that... not an arab. the biggest bedouin tribe of saudi "arabia" is the yemenite tayy tribe.. and the yemenite spoke a whole other language than Safaitic which was spoken in the levant.
i am not saying that the entire levant was arab but that the majority of the arabs lived in the levant.
The borders between Arabia and the Levant is a grey region. I don't disagree with what you're saying.


the point is that the "arabian" peninsula was ethnically diverse and hence they were not arabs... modern provinces of saudi "arabia" such as Asir, Najran, and probably Hail too are almost exclusively yemenites. not arabs... additionally, the eastern province of saudi "arabia" are descended from the ancient dilmunites.
not even yathrib had an arab majority as that city was inhabited by jews and the yemenite banu khazaj.
I mean... look at modern day Germany, is it 100% ethnically German? Of course not.

The reason why Arabization is attributed to modern SA is that Arabization came along with Islam, which was created by ethnic Arabians who spoke Arabic, to the non-Arab regions along with its civilizational (and apparently ethnic) packages.

the arabs of saudi "arabia" historically lived in what is now the regions of tabouk and al-jawf next to jordan (formerly known as nabataea)
Good. I don't care if they originally came from North, South or East of Arabia as long as we agree that the original homeland of the Arabs is Arabia.



first of all why do u keep bringing up the lebanese? i have never mentioned them in this thread. So why are you? I guess u are a maronite who claims to be a 'phoenician', right? let me stop u right there... maronites came from northern syria far from phoenician realm.

besides lebanon had an arab kingdom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iturea
Again, please go through the studies that I've posted.

that be said: those very 'arab' bedouins were neither 'arabs' nor were they considered arabs. in syriac sources they are referred to as 'tayyoye' meaning the yemenite tayy tribe... i fail to see any arab here???
concerning the arabic language, i'm gonna say this for the very last time: arabic was not the major language of 'arabia' as it was in southern levant (nabataea).


for the millionth time arabia has nothing to do with saudia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_(etymology)
Repeating a statement doesn't make it right.


the biggest bedouin tribe is the tayy tribe... it is possible that once they got arabized they considered themselves arabs.
It is possible that I am the pope, too.


this is not true at all.... they did not consider themselves arabs back then.. neither were they referred to as arabs... as i said: in syriac sources they were called 'tayyoye' (an yemenite tribe)..
did u know that just before the so-called 'arab' invasion.. the syriac speakers of kingdom of edessa were referred to as arabs by the persians (arabistan), by the greco-romans, by the armenians, and even they themselves called their kingdom beth arabaya: ARB?YIST?N ? Encyclopaedia Iranica
Biji biji Arabyistan?

i dont know if they were historians... all i know is that they were wrong concerning the arabs.
Thankfully the world consider them to be historians, but not you.



it also seems that the 'arabian' peninsula experienced ethnic arabization.
No, because ethnic Arabs are native to Arabia as we have both agreed.
 
May 2016
974
Nabataea
all of it doesn't proove anything not a single thing , no one said Jordan wasn't part of Arabia , Achaemenid Arabia , is what was known as Arabia petraea to the Greco-Roman and Herodotus. Achaemenid just took the name from Greek which was Arabia petraea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Felix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapur_II%27s_Arab_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_Deserta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qahtanite

this is so much not valid in any possible way... shapur was a king of the persian sassanid empire after the greco-romans mistakenly named it arabia sahra... prior to the sassanid empire the persians as their assyrian precursor referred to jordan as arabia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Arabia
what ? are you kidding me the sassanid literally invaded Arabia and killed half of the population for god sake , they HAD A CONTACT WITH THEM


and are you good at math ? Greek pre date the Achaemenid empire

Ancient Greece was a civilization that lasted from the Archaic period of the 8th to c.5th centuries BC

Classical Greece, which flourished during the 5th to 4th centuries BC. Classical Greece began with the era of the Persian Wars.
jazira means an island not a peninsula. thats just another mistake in the line of mistakes of yamanians.
you call it arabia bcos u couldnt come up with a native name for it hahaha
waw , just waw , he want to teach me Arabic my native tongue.

its called in Arabic " Shibh jazirat Al-3rb" or "Jazirat Al-3rb"


click on the link
Jaz?rat al ?Arab, Saudi Arabia - Geographical Names, map, geographic coordinates
i cant help that u wont believe all the facts i have giving u... no one considered the yamanian peninsula to be arabia prior to the greco-romans named it so.

facts ? , there is no pre Islamic books describing Arabia prior to Greek if the Arabs didn't allied with the Arameans The Assyrian wouldn't even mention the Arabs it doesn't mean that we don't exist , in the other hand Greco-Roman historian wrote plenty of books and references about Arabia which one of the oldest was Herodotus book 2500 year ago


you know what.... just stick to ur "arabia" no one gives a flying f about it anyway and from now on neither am i.... consider this to be the end... no amount of posts from u can convince me otherwise.... bye bye

no please consider Arabia to be Arabia please i beg you
 
Last edited:
Jan 2013
638
The main reason why people adopted the Arab language in North Africa and the Levant was because they already spoke Semitic languages and the Berber languages belong to the same language family like Arabic. Turks and Indo-Aryans never adopted the Arabic language because their tongue was too disimilar to Arabic
That doesn't wash. Many people in the Middle East still spoke Greek at the time of the Arab conquests, and a reasonably large number of people in North Africa spoke African Romance or even Germanic languages (i.e. the Vandals).
 

Lucius

Forum Staff
Jan 2007
16,363
Nebraska
Dear MiddleEast and AncientA,

Please consider that Historum is planet-wide. That is to say, the international community is judging you. And not just you, but your country too. That's not fair but life is not fair. You are perforce representing "your people."

If I were of your people, I would ask you two to dial the vile back down.

This is your Historum Moderator Warnings, and I remain,

Very Sincerely Yours,

Lucius
 
May 2016
974
Nabataea
Dear MiddleEast and AncientA,

Please consider that Historum is planet-wide. That is to say, the international community is judging you. And not just you, but your country too. That's not fair but life is not fair. You are perforce representing "your people."

If I were of your people, I would ask you two to dial the vile back down.

This is your Historum Moderator Warnings, and I remain,

Very Sincerely Yours,

Lucius
sorry it won't happen again
 
Dec 2015
513
Middle East
Your friend, AncientA, the bearer of the evidence, is doubting its accuracy.
bias...


Any reliable source would tell you that Armenia was the first Christian Kingdom. Your "considerations" are irrelevant.
bias...



It is not a wrong term man... The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't justify your proposals. How bout we change the whole naming of geographical regions around the world just because we don't like them then?
Give me some evidence that proves that saudi yamania was included as arabia before the greco-romans.. 'arabia' means 'west' and saudi yamania is south and east to assyria... i'm pretty sure that the assyrians could distinguish between south, north, east and west.
and names are changable just the way the greco-romans:
1) changed the meaning of arabia to include saudi yamania...
2) changed the name of aramaea to syria
3) changed the name of canaan to philistine.
4) changed the name of iran into persia.

and there are probably more examples

Most of Jordan is part of Arabia.
i dont agree with this statement... arabia IS jordan and not anything else as jordan is situated arab/gharb (west) to assyria.

Don't let resent colonial divisions fool you.
neither should u... but unforunately u r fooling urself when thinking that saudi yamania is a part of arabia...

Saudi Arabia lies in Arabia, theretofore, the Arabic language is native to Arabia. The southern parts of Arabia is another story.
only tabouk and jawf regions r parts of arabia... the rest isnt... the British who draw these middle eastern borders could easily have included these two saudi region into the jordanian territory.

The reason why Arabization is attributed to modern SA is that Arabization came along with Islam, which was created by ethnic Arabians who spoke Arabic, to the non-Arab regions along with its civilizational (and apparently ethnic) packages.
did arabization come with islam? i thought u said that the christians created arabism and now u claim it came with islam?
and no, arabization is a myth... of course there are a lot of cultural similarities between the people of the middle east but these similarities have always been there even prior to islam.

Good. I don't care if they originally came from North, South or East of Arabia as long as we agree that the original homeland of the Arabs is Arabia.
yes, we agree that the arabs originally came from arabia in the same way the germans come from germany and russians come from russia....
what sets us apart is where this 'arabia' is.... and i have provided loads of evidence that arabia was jordan.


Thankfully the world consider them to be historians, but not you.
go through the list of mistakes that they made concerning the geography and demography of the region and re-consider ur position.

the greco-romans:
1) changed the meaning of arabia to include saudi yamania...
2) changed the name of aramaea to syria
3) changed the name of canaan to philistine.
4) changed the name of iran into persia.

No, because ethnic Arabs are native to Arabia as we have both agreed.
arabs are native to arabia (jordan)
 
May 2016
974
Nabataea
'arabia' means 'west' and saudi yamania is south and east to assyria... i'm pretty sure that the assyrians could distinguish between south, north, east and west.
the word Arab (derived from i'rab), means "those who speak clearly" as contrast with ajam (those who speak indistinctly )
 
May 2016
974
Nabataea
The Demolition of Dhul Khalasa occurred in April and May 632 AD, in 10 AH of the Islamic Calendar. Dhul Khalasa is referred to both as an idol and a temple, and was known by some as the Ka'ba of Yemen, built and worshipped by pagan tribes.

it was known as the southern Ka’ba, to rival the Ka’ba at Mecca, so prophet Muhammad ordered its demolition. Jarir ibn Abdullah al-Bajali was sent to demolish it. The Temple of Dhul Khalasa resided at Tabala, and was worshipped by the Bajila and Khatham tribes.

The term Dhul Khalasa is usually taken as the name of the temple, it was referred to as the Yemenite Ka’ba by the tribes who worshipped it.

Jarir rode with 150 horsemen to Dhul Khalasa to destroy the “Yemenite Ka’ba”.

Hisham Ibn Al-Kalbi mentions when Jarir ibn Abdullah proceeded to Dhul Khalasa, he was met with resistance. The Muslims led by him, fought and killed 100 men “of the Bahilah, its custodians, and many of the Khath'am” and another 200 men of the Banu-Qubafah tribes. He then demolished the building and set it on fire.


--

Even after the idol was destroyed by Muhammad’s followers, the cult of Dhul Khalasa was resurrected and worshipped in the region until 1815, when members of the Sunni [Wahhabi] movement organised military campaigns to suppress remnants of pagan worship. The reconstructed idol was subsequently destroyed by gunfire.



The last Islamization of Arabia was done by the wahhabist , some of the Arabians in the 19th century were pagans.
 

johnincornwall

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
8,008
Cornwall
The main reason why people adopted the Arab language in North Africa and the Levant was because they already spoke Semitic languages and the Berber languages belong to the same language family like Arabic. Turks and Indo-Aryans never adopted the Arabic language because their tongue was too disimilar to Arabic
That doesn't wash. Many people in the Middle East still spoke Greek at the time of the Arab conquests, and a reasonably large number of people in North Africa spoke African Romance or even Germanic languages (i.e. the Vandals).
Copper is right. They spoke Greek in the Byzantine Levant. The first arab rulers had to rule through interpreters, before arabic became compulsory in Damascus. Which was actually the 'main reason.....'

Berbers were sort of 'on the edge' in North Africa. Not mainstream society. Besides, they still speak their own lingos don't they? And they are still 'on the fringes'