How did the HRE, with such a confusing, intricate and complicated system of governance last for 1000 years? [No, Voltaire quotes are not necessary]

Oct 2011
421
Croatia
Ferdinand was elected to king of Hungary by the higher aristocracy (the magnates or barons) and the Hungarian Catholic clergy in a rump Diet in Pozsony on 17 December 1526.[7]

Croatian parliament of Cetin maybe just affirmed the Hungarian parliament's decision on 1 of January, 1527
No, it did not. Croatia was in personal union with Hungary before then. Decision had to be made independently by Croatia; Hungary could not have forced Croatia to enter union with Habsburgs in any way short of outright military conquest.

Sorry, but I can not found any info about the vassalage, maybe it exist only in your own imagination. Sure that Hungary was never been part of the HRE, there were such attempts, but the Hungarian nobility resisted against the very idea.
Technically only Austrian part of the Monarchy was part of Holy Roman Empire, but Habsburgs had been Holy Roman Emperors for centuries at that point, so I tend to equate the two when it comes to Austria.
 
Oct 2019
34
Budapest
No, it did not. Croatia was in personal union with Hungary before then. Decision had to be made independently by Croatia; Hungary could not have forced Croatia to enter union with Habsburgs in any way short of outright military conquest.



Technically only Austrian part of the Monarchy was part of Holy Roman Empire, but Habsburgs had been Holy Roman Emperors for centuries at that point, so I tend to equate the two when it comes to Austria.
The Pacta Conventa is just a myth, which is popular in Croatia.
There was no "union with Habsburgs" since Habsburg Empire did not exist. Habsburg Empire is not an official. but it is just an umbrella term which was invented and used by historians in the posterior. You can not join to a fictional inveented term, which was invented by historians.
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,933
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
You have no clue what I am talking about, do you? Croatian Parliament elected Ferdinand Habsburg for ruler in 1527. So you are off by only some 340 years.

Granted, we were technically not vassals, but rather part of, Holy Roman Empire.
....Sorry, but I can not found any info about the vassalage, maybe it exist only in your own imagination. Sure that Hungary was never been part of the HRE, there were such attempts, but the Hungarian nobility resisted against the very idea.
Just as the Duke of Bavaria or the Margrave of Montferrat was a vassal of the Emperor, the King of Hungary was often a vassal of the Emperor during the early centuries of the Holy Roman Empire.
 
Oct 2019
34
Budapest
Just as the Duke of Bavaria or the Margrave of Montferrat was a vassal of the Emperor, the King of Hungary was often a vassal of the Emperor during the early centuries of the Holy Roman Empire.
It is similar fantasy, like the Earth is flat. The H.R. Emperors simply had no military and economic power to spread vassalage towards the East. Due to the lack of military and economic power, it is no wonder, that medieval H.R. Empire had the worst war statistics in Europe.
 
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Oct 2011
421
Croatia
The Pacta Conventa is just a myth, which is popular in Croatia.
There was no "union with Habsburgs" since Habsburg Empire did not exist. Habsburg Empire is not an official. but it is just an umbrella term which was invented and used by historians in the posterior. You can not join to a fictional inveented term, which was invented by historians.
Pacta Conventa may be a myth, as such, but regardless of whether document itself was a myth or not, it did reflect actual political situation - inventing historical documents to justify current situation was hardly unusual. Croatia really was only in personal union with Hungary, and as I pointed out, decision to join Austrian Empire was made by Croatian Parliament independently of Hungarian one.
 
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Oct 2019
34
Budapest
Pacta Conventa may be a myth, as such, but regardless of whether document itself was a myth or not, it did reflect actual political situation - inventing historical documents to justify current situation was hardly unusual. Croatia really was only in personal union with Hungary, and as I pointed out, decision to join Austrian Empire was made by Croatian Parliament independently of Hungarian one.
Again, the Austrian Empire was established only in 1804... How can they join to Austrian Empire... Can you explain it?
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,546
Republika Srpska
Again, the Austrian Empire was established only in 1804... How can they join to Austrian Empire... Can you explain it?
You are now being simply nitpicky. Yes, it is technically incorrect to use the term Austrian Empire when talking about the 16th century, but it is clear what Picard was talking about.
 

Frank81

Ad Honorem
Feb 2010
5,087
Canary Islands-Spain
In order to understand the HRE, its weakness and strong points, we must look as well into the original establishment of the Empire

However, this is fruitless if we go to Charlemagne. The re-establishment of the empire into Otto I took place after the division of the Carolingian Empire, and the consolidation of its Easten Part since the Treaty of Verdun

Western Frankia soon fell into extreme de-centralization at a very low level. But this didn't happen in Eastern Frankia. Otto, as his predecessores and succesors, based their power in alliances and bonds with the big ethnic groups of the old Roman times: Saxons, Franks, Allamani (basically Suevi), Bavarians. The original four divisions of the German nation were powerful by itself, so it has been until today




Problems started when the great tribal groups started to loose cohesion, and feudalism expanded at a very low level. The HRE failed to develop a central authority (the real big question on the HRE), which was closer to be established with Maximilian I and Ferdinand II. In this case, the failure is more probably related to foreign intervention than to inner issues
 
Oct 2019
34
Budapest
You are now being simply nitpicky. Yes, it is technically incorrect to use the term Austrian Empire when talking about the 16th century, but it is clear what Picard was talking about.
It is not clear for me. Habsburg Empire officially did not exist, that umbrella term was invented by historians. Croatia or Hungary were no part of the Holy Roman Empire either.... So I can't even understand what did he want to say....
 
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