How do we have to view the history of East Asia

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,778
United States
you see? korean like you are the reason why we chinese hate korean. we never have any hatred before toward korean until korean become cocky and start to throw insult toward us, start distorting and fabricating historical facts.

first, korean nationalist like you must understand what civilization is.

one of many requirement to be called as civilization is to have their own writting system. what you called as "liao civilization" did not have any form of writting system, neither korean. you korean only have your own writting system in 1446 ad, which is very late.

yes, our chinese civilization are special, the only one cradle of civilization in east asia, the only one that very different than the other 3 cradle of civilization, proven by world archeologist, you korean just butthurt waking up in this modern time realized there is nothing that can be proud of from your own society.



you korean ultra nationalist love to claim and related with altaic people while in reality nothing from korean are related with altaic people at all.
Reference Populations - Geno 2.0 Next Generation

korea gene


mongol gene


your so called korean language according to alexander vovin are paleo siberian aka tungus language, never altaic. tungus people are different from altaic, tungus people originated from around lake baikal siberia, while altaic people originated from altai mountain central asia (west mongolia).
Actually local writing systems related to idu and hyangchal began to develop during the Three Kingdoms period.

Altaic is a good concept for a culture/linguistic interaction sphere where many cultures come together and influence each other. Most of the Altaic features of Korean may even date to the Mongol occupation.

1. Paleo-Siberian and Tungus[ic] are not synonymous terms.
2. Alexander Vovin never claimed that Korean is related to Tungusic or Paleo-Siberian. Quite the opposite.
3. You're oversensitive. Not every claim coming from Koreans is nationalistic rambling.

I recommend re-reading Vovin's publication again, more carefully this time.
He was demonstrating the similarities to prove that typological similarities don't mean a genetic (in a linguistic sense) relationship. However, the fact that it typologically is quite like the Siberian languages (and a couple very old loanwords) indicates to me it was probably once in a Sprachbund with some of them.
 
Sep 2016
570
天下
He was demonstrating the similarities to prove that typological similarities don't mean a genetic (in a linguistic sense) relationship. However, the fact that it typologically is quite like the Siberian languages (and a couple very old loanwords) indicates to me it was probably once in a Sprachbund with some of them.
Yes, it's not improbable that some (para-) proto-Nivkh or (para-) proto-Ainu was spoken further to the west and had contact with proto-Korean or Old Korean. Still, it's far shot from saying that Korean is anything, but Koreanic language.
 
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May 2017
278
China
Actually local writing systems related to idu and hyangchal began to develop during the Three Kingdoms period.

Altaic is a good concept for a culture/linguistic interaction sphere where many cultures come together and influence each other. Most of the Altaic features of Korean may even date to the Mongol occupation.



He was demonstrating the similarities to prove that typological similarities don't mean a genetic (in a linguistic sense) relationship. However, the fact that it typologically is quite like the Siberian languages (and a couple very old loanwords) indicates to me it was probably once in a Sprachbund with some of them.

idu and hyangchal script are not proper writting system, the proper one are hangul. that is why korean only celebrate hangul day but there is no idu and hyangchal day.

Koreans celebrate Hangeul Day with festivals and events

Hangul Day
Hangul Day - Wikipedia

Happy Hangul Day!
Happy Hangul Day!



the problem with altaic language study is that many nationalists trying to exploit it for their own benefit, such as claiming territory, claiming military archievement, etc. this is where it went wrong.
 

Haakbus

Ad Honorem
Aug 2013
3,778
United States
idu and hyangchal script are not proper writting system, the proper one are hangul. that is why korean only celebrate hangul day but there is no idu and hyangchal day.

Koreans celebrate Hangeul Day with festivals and events

Hangul Day
Hangul Day - Wikipedia

Happy Hangul Day!
Happy Hangul Day!



the problem with altaic language study is that many nationalists trying to exploit it for their own benefit, such as claiming territory, claiming military archievement, etc. this is where it went wrong.
Define a proper writing system.

Nationalists of all stripes exploit stuff to exaggerate their nation's achievements, this is not new information.
 
May 2017
278
China
1. Paleo-Siberian and Tungus[ic] are not synonymous terms.
2. Alexander Vovin never claimed that Korean is related to Tungusic or Paleo-Siberian. Quite the opposite.
3. You're oversensitive. Not every claim coming from Koreans is nationalistic rambling.

I recommend re-reading Vovin's publication again, more carefully this time.
here is some reference for that.

Korean as a Paleosiberian Language (English version of 원시시베리아 언어로서의 한국어)
Alexander Vovin
Korean as a Paleosiberian Language (English version of 원시시베리아 언어로서의 한국어)

Paleo-Siberian languages | linguistics

Paleosiberian languages | Revolvy
Koreanic (Korean) shares some typological features with the four Paleosiberian groups (e.g. lack of phonemic voiced stops, verb compounding, earlier ergativity), and Alexander Vovin suggests that it actually has more in common with "Paleosiberian" than with the putative Altaic group (to which it is sometimes assigned) — even though the Paleosiberian languages are not thought to form a typological whole.[3]Janhunen (2016: 8)[4] suggests the possibility that similar consonant stop systems in Koreanic and Nivkh may be due to ancient contact.

Alexander Vovin says Korean is Paleo-Siberian
Korean Sentry Forum • View topic - Alexander Vovin says Korean is Paleo-Siberian
Alexander Vovin is linguistic expert in Paleo-Siberian languages, claims Korean language isn't Altaic but isolated Paleo-Siberian language. I actually agrees with his claim as this is more logical and also explains why there's difference between Korean and other Altaic language. IMO, even early Jurchen language might have been Paleo-Siberian but later influenced by Altaic-Mongolian. According to Vovin, Korean language is most closest to languages of Ainu, Nivkh, Chukchi and Koryak nd even Nanai, and distantly related Turkic-Altaic.

What's the origin of the Korean language?
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-origin-of-the-Korean-language

Paleosiberian languages
Paleosiberian languages - Wikipedia
 
Sep 2016
570
天下
here is some reference for that.

Korean as a Paleosiberian Language (English version of 원시시베리아 언어로서의 한국어)
Alexander Vovin
Korean as a Paleosiberian Language (English version of 원시시베리아 언어로서의 한국어)

Paleo-Siberian languages | linguistics

Paleosiberian languages | Revolvy
Koreanic (Korean) shares some typological features with the four Paleosiberian groups (e.g. lack of phonemic voiced stops, verb compounding, earlier ergativity), and Alexander Vovin suggests that it actually has more in common with "Paleosiberian" than with the putative Altaic group (to which it is sometimes assigned) — even though the Paleosiberian languages are not thought to form a typological whole.[3]Janhunen (2016: 8)[4] suggests the possibility that similar consonant stop systems in Koreanic and Nivkh may be due to ancient contact.

Alexander Vovin says Korean is Paleo-Siberian
Korean Sentry Forum • View topic - Alexander Vovin says Korean is Paleo-Siberian
Alexander Vovin is linguistic expert in Paleo-Siberian languages, claims Korean language isn't Altaic but isolated Paleo-Siberian language. I actually agrees with his claim as this is more logical and also explains why there's difference between Korean and other Altaic language. IMO, even early Jurchen language might have been Paleo-Siberian but later influenced by Altaic-Mongolian. According to Vovin, Korean language is most closest to languages of Ainu, Nivkh, Chukchi and Koryak nd even Nanai, and distantly related Turkic-Altaic.

What's the origin of the Korean language?
https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-origin-of-the-Korean-language

Paleosiberian languages
Paleosiberian languages - Wikipedia
And I said read the fricking publication. Obviously you didn't and just copy the misconceptions from the people on the internet, who also have no idea what Vovin had written.
 
Feb 2016
586
ROK
Recently I’ve seen quite a lot of comments online regarding disputes in East Asia history. There were so many nationalistic views from Korea, China and Japan.
In fact, they just pouring hatred on each other who’s great and who’s not. When everyone in the world literally share almost identical DNA, people seems to distinguish themselves and try to prove that their country is better than the others....
The dispute is really not about who's better. The issue is that some parts of ancient history of those countries contradict with each other. Hence, it's not easy to explain East Asian history without having someone disagree. In my opinion, the historians and the education sectors of those countries need to work together and come with an agreement. Or just have the students learn all of the different versions, although that would make the history classes more complicating. Another problem is that certain countries are using history (or their own versions) to support their territorial claims. It's a difficult issue to solve and one that could continue for a long time.
 
Last edited:
Jul 2014
1,616
world
Truly agree with you. For Tibetan, its may be due to their multi-ethinicity. There was no single ethnic major that have dominated the nation unlike other nations in Asia. China was under constant classification of their subordinates based on the ruling class. Korea too were looking down upon Manchus and Mongols and other minorities. Japanese ,during their expansion, too have classified grades between Japanese, Korean and Chinese.

/QUOTE]

May I know what you mean by multi ethnicity ?