How do you get a lot of Russians to settle in the southern parts of the Russian Empire?

May 2014
16,687
SoCal
#45
Do you mean the Black Sea? The Ukraine was the southern part of the Russian Empire in the west..
Yes, I meant in the Kuban, Caucasus, Astrakhan area, Ottoman Armenia (if Russia will ever acquire it), Trebizond (if Russia will ever acquire it), Central Asia, Xinjiang (if Russia will ever acquire it), and Mongolia (if Russia will ever acquire it).
 
Nov 2015
1,722
Kyiv
#46
Ukraine was a no man's land peopled by Russians...
- quite correct. Of course, if you pay no attention to the fact that in the 10-13th century, on the lands of Ukraine there was the "metropolis" and the capital of the state of Rus. One of the largest in Europe. In the 13-14 century, there were the powerful Galician-Volyn principality, and one of the sons of its dynasty headed the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Rus and Zhemoytia. From the middle of the 14th century to the second half of the 16th century, Ukraine was an integral part of this state. In the second half of the 16th century after the Union of Lublin she became part of the Kingdom of Poland, and the Moscow Tzardom took over some territory in the north-east. The Ottoman Empire owned part of the land in the south, and in Crimea it was its vassal - the Crimean Khanate

Further, several years of independence in mid-17c, and from the second half of the 17th century to the Third Partition of Poland (1795), Ukraine was divided between the Russian Empire and Poland, and then between the Russian and Austrian empires.

For centuries, no one's land was a significant part of the Ukrainian Left Bank (except for its northern part) and the southern steppes (without the Crimea).

The population of Ukraine (in its present territory) was 5.7 million in 1719

On the right-bank Ukraine (as part of Poland) - 3.6 million (63.5%), on the left-bank (under the Muscowy) 1.9 million (33.3%). In Transcarpathia and Bukovina - approx. 190,000

The firts Russians started to settle in the far north-east of Ukraine from the end of the 16th century. And till the 19c Russian migration to Ukrainie was minimal. Most of the Russians moved to Ukraine only in the 19-20th century. And it is not for nothing that the ethnonym Moskal (from the city of Moscow) was used by the Ukrainians until the late 19th century both to the Russians and militaries, since the majority of Russians in Ukraine at that time were military

...as the urban population grew the Cossack nature of the society came under pressure the old Sietch had trouble with the local citizen who saw Cossack as privileged few
It seems to me that you identify the Ukrainian Zaporizhian Cossacks with the Cossack as a social class in Ukraine. This is not the same.

Zaporizhye Sich was located much south of the populated territory of Ukraine and it lived its own life. It resembled a kind of a monastic knightly order. Women in the Sich had no right to live. Zaporozhye lived through raids on Turkish lands and the Crimean Khanate, as well as through the register payments of the Polish king who often used Zaporozhian as part of his troops. The Cossacks were also a mercenary army in the Thirty Years War and in the service of the Fcossacks rench they participated in the siege of Dunkirk in 1645

The cossacks took part in a series of battles between the Polish army and Turkey and the Moscow tzardom. They played a very important role in the largest battle with the Turks and the Crimea near Khotyn in 1621. The battle continued for a month, and the Muslim army suffered a heavy defeat.

The Kuban (Northern Caucasus) was populated by Zaporizhzhya Cossacks, who were moved there by Catherine after the defeat of the Sich by the Russian army in 1775.

Part of the Cossacks went to live in the Turkish lands, and from the rest several hussar and pikiner regiments were created in the Russian army. Before the Holodomor of 1932-1933, the main language of the Kuban was Ukrainian. and there were many Ukrainian schools there. In 1933 Moscow authorities changed all Ukrainian schools in Kuban into the Russian ones.
 
Likes: Futurist
Nov 2015
1,722
Kyiv
#47
urbanization occurred during the 19th century , in concert with a very peaceful period and the growth of the potato
the Empire population seriously increased ,
Ukraine in particular had very few towns , it was raider country ravaged by the Tatar slavers or the Poles on the warpath
once peace was established , market towns created the nucleus for the countryside resettlement

the poor Cossack formed bands of Gaidamaks and raided Polish Ukraine
thus sticking to their old tradition of raiders
much to the anger of the Cossack ,Polish and Russian authorities who wanted stability
ultimately the land mutated as a farming community with great estates sprinkled with growing towns
where non Cossack had no rights
Cossack society itself had been mutating with rich land owning Cossack
and the poor ones having not enough money to equip themselves for service duty
undermining the previous unity of the community
the landowners accepted runaway serfs from Russia and using them as cheap labor
while Jews acting as estate managers or holder of the government vodka monopoly added a level of tension
the abolition of servage was the source of further trouble ,

this was of course a slow process but it accelerated during the 19th century ,Kharkov in particular rose to prominence
absorbing population from all over the empire

I think that several declarations in your post I could not recognize as objective.

The Russian Empire on the whole was an agrarian country. At the beginning of the 20th century the urban population was only 15%. And Ukraine did not stand out on this background. Moreover, in Cossack times there were a sufficient number of cities and towns. You can look at the detailed map of Ukraine de Boplan (mid 17th century).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Beauplan_Poland_XVII_map.jpg

North with Crimea on the map are at the top, south - at the bottom

At that time, Paul from Aleppo traveled to Moscow within the religious delegation and he left notes with a number of Ukrainian cities with a large population that he could not call poor or robbed. He was also surprised by the high literacy of the common Ukrainians. Even many women could read and write

At the beginning of the next 18th century, the Danish ambassador in Muscowy Just Juel was driving on these lands from Russia. And his notes also mention Ukrainian cities and towns with a large population, although some of them were recently ravaged by raids from the Crimea.

Russian cities of the 16-17th century, excluding Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod were large villages built up with houses from round logs with vegetable beds near the house. I would hardly have voiced a compliment to the Ukrainian townlife of the 16-17th century, but against the background of most of Russia with its extremely backward urban culture, Ukraine looked rather positive.

In general, the arrival of Muscovy in Ukraine was a shock to the Ukrainian urban culture. The fact is that in Muscovy the urban culture was in an embryonic state. Unlike Ukraine, there were neither schools, nor colleges, nor academies, nor poetry, nor science, nor normal secular literature in Muscovy of the 17c. It was a semi-wild and culturally backward tzardom which culturally lagged behind Ukraine of that time by several centuries.

Suffice it to say that in the middle of the 18th century there were 640 primary Ukrainian schools in the lands of Chernihiv region in the autonomous Ukraine. And when the Russian authorities abolished the autonomy (Hetmanate) in Ukraine and turned it into several usual provinces for Russia - the number of schools there decreased exactly 100 times. From 640 schools to 6 ones.

Urbanization of the Russian Empire started almost simultaneously with her industrialization in the second half of the 19th century. And industrialization was provided mainly by the influx of Western loans into the Russian empire, including the billion-dollar French "Russian loan"

And if we talk about Zaporizhya Kozaks, they called the Polish king our king till mid -17c and willingly went to serve under his banners. Even in the early letters to the Moscow Tsar, Hetman of the Zaporizhya Troops Bogdan Khmelnitsky speaks of the Polish crown with respect and considers the king to be his overlord

The problem for the Cossacks rather was the low number of the Cossack registry for service on the side of the Poles. To pay for more Cossacks, the king had little money
 
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Nov 2015
1,722
Kyiv
#48
I will cite a fragment of Guillome de Boplan’s notes on Ukrainian Zaporizhzhya Kozaks. The Frenchman de Boplan was a military engineer in the service of the Polish king and for more than 15 years traveled through Ukraine, built fortifications there and participated in military campaigns. He knew this country and its people well and left a detailed description of this, as well as a wonderful map of Ukraine on 6 large sheets.

... it was from here that those brave people who are now called Zaporizhzhya Cossacks and scattered from ancient times in various localities around Borisfen (Dnieper - Dir) and in its surroundings came out. <...> These people, who often, almost every year make raids on Pont Evksinsky (Black Sea - Dir) and cause great harm to the Turks. They plundered the Crimea belonging to (Crymean - Dir) Tatars many times, devastated Anatolia, plundered Trabzon and even reached the mouth of the Black Sea, three miles from Constantinople, from which returning all to fire and sword returned with big booty and a certain number of slaves, usually small children, who were left at home as a servant or give to the grandees of their country. They never take the elderly with them, except when they consider them rich enough to pay the ransom for themselves. <...>



Speaking about the courage of the Cossacks, it is not at all superfluous to say what their customs and practices are. So, you will find out that among these people there are experienced craftsmen in general in all the crafts necessary for life: carpenters, able to build both houses and ships, crew craftsmen, blacksmiths, gunsmiths, tanners, saddlers, shoemakers, bochary, tailors, etc. . They are very adept at making saltpeter, which is abundant in these parts, and they make excellent cannon powder. Women are engaged in flax and wool yarn, from which they make linen and fabrics for general use. All are well able to cultivate the land, sow, reap, bake bread, prepare meat of various varieties, brew beer, honey, beer, smoke vodka, etc.


There is not a single person between them no matter what age, sex, or condition he belongs to, no matter who tries to outperform his companion in drunkenness and bitterness. There are none among Christians and those who, just as much as they have learned the habit of not caring for tomorrow.

However, in fairness, it is necessary to recognize all of them are capable of any kind of occupation, although others are more skillful than others in certain crafts. <...>

They profess the Greek faith, calling it Ruska faith in their own way, sacredly celebrate holidays and observe fasting that lasts for eight or nine months a year and consists of refraining from eating meat. ... For that, in return, it seems to me, hardly any nation in the world would have caught up with them in the ability to drink, for they do not have time to become sober that they are immediately accepted (as they say) to be treated by what they have suffered.


All this, by the way, happens only in free time, but when they are fighting or preparing some business, they are extremely sober, and rudeness can be seen only in clothes. They are witty and shrewd, intelligent and generous without calculation, they do not strive for great wealth, but they highly value their freedom, without which they could not live; that is why they are so prone to riots and rebellions against local seigneurs, only feel oppression from the latter. So rarely does it take more than 7-8 years without the Cossacks to rebel and rebel against them. However, these people are treacherous and treacherous, traitors who can be trusted only by thinking well.

They are extremely strong build, easily tolerate heat and cold, hunger and thirst, tireless in war, courageous and brave, but rather reckless, because they do not value their lives. Most of all, they show dexterity and stamina in the battle in a camp under the cover of wagons (for they shoot very accurately from the guns that make up their conventional weapons) and in the defense of the fortifications; they are also good at sea, but when riding, they are not so skilled. I remember that it happened to me to see how only 200 Polish horsemen turned 2,000 of their best warriors to flight. But it is also true that under the cover of their camps, a hundred Cossacks will not be afraid of thousands of Poles or even several thousand Tatars. If they were as valiant in horse battles as in foot, then I think they would be invincible. <...> Few of them (Cossacks) die from the disease, except that in extreme old age, most die an honorable death, laying their heads on the battlefield.

The nobility among them is very few, imitates the Polish, and seems to be ashamed of what belongs to the other, non-Roman faith, into which they convert daily, although all know and all those who bear the name of princes come from the Greek (Orthodox) faith .

The peasants there are very unhappy, as they are forced to work three days a week on their own horses in favor of their lord and give him according to the size of the land they hold a certain amount of grain, a lot of capons, chickens, geese and chickens for Easter and Trinity and Christmas; moreover - to carry firewood for the needs of his liege and work out thousands of other corvee duties that they are not obliged to perform, not to mention the money demanded by the lords, as well as tithing from rams, pigs, honey, all fruits and one of the horses every three years.


De Boplan also notes a completely unusual tradition of Ukrainian girls to come to woo their boyfriend, and they rarely get rejected. Till European feminism there were still several centuries
 
Jan 2017
4,085
Sydney
#49
the number of Cossacks on the rolls getting paid was a constant trouble ,
the rolls were amended several times by both the Polish masters and the Russian one
in fact the pay was very low , many Cossack could not equip themselves with it and joined pikemen units as they could afford their horse
by early 19th century , except for the rich land owning , most cossack equipment was very bad
it got worst , poor Cossack would serve as substitute for the richer ones , until by 1820 substitution was strictly forbidden
the fraternal institutions were dead except the communal barrack , the Kumen wich was little more than a poor house
and celibacy had been a dead letter for a century , the mostly Russian recruits made of runnaway sefs dwindled ,
newcomers were resented as "migrants " and prevented from being registered ,
the death of celibacy in fact allowed for the growth of the Cossack population now that they could breed
and develop their own character as a people , which was not the case during the raider times
thus the decline of the old freewheeling Cossackdom was the source of the Cossack identity as a people
 
Sep 2011
5,072
#50
Ukrainian is not a language just a local patois of mangled Russian
it's like calling Robert Burn language Scottish
Yes well, Robert Burn's language IS Scots. English is primarily derived from Saxon. Scots is derived from the language of the Angles who settled in the north.

I.e. English and Scots ARE different languages, and the linguistic divergence is OLD.

They are of course still both Germanic and already in their origins closely related, thus mostly mutually intelligible.

Much like Ukranian and Russian.

But I guess for political expediency denying Ukranian takes precedence...?