How do you see the LEBENSBORN nazi program and it’s consequences?

Oct 2015
886
Norway
#12
I found this interview on the internet. It's the memory of a woman who worked at the office of Böhmisch-Mährische Landgesellschaft (what was that? A company) in Czechoslovakia. Many female typists worked there and lived at the same hostel. She went home for the weekend and then SS troops were driven by truck to the hostel. She believes the women (and the soldiers) got drunk and had sex. This happened every Saturday, and when a women got pregnant she was moved out of there to a Lebensborn orphanage. Is this believable? if it is, how common was it?


Link:
They got the girls drunk and had sex with them | Memory of Nations Sites
 
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Oct 2015
886
Norway
#13
This article in the post above has made me curious. Some picture Lebensborn as a chain of orphanages for "aryan" women who got pregnant with a German out of wedlock. The motiver was racist, but it still...
The link indicates that SS soldiers, before they were sent to the front, were trucked to all-female dormitories and hotels. Then the women and soldiers got drunk. When the women got pregnant they were sent directly to Lebensborn orphanages.
Was this a system? Did German hotels and companies know and accept this?
The women must have at least suspected what was going on: SS troops came every Saturday, there was a wild drunken party and one by one they got pregnant and picked up by the same institution. Or were the women so cynic al they were in on it?
 
Oct 2017
186
United States
#14
Lebensruam, or the idea of living space, is, more or less, America at this point by and large...


Massive amounts of people of generic anglo-white stock, massive amounts of land.



The present environment is basically if Russia before WW2 was like hey yeah sure come in come in!


We now know the consequences, a Reich borne of pure hatred able to sustain itself far longer than anyone could of possibly dreamed.



To be honest, at this point, since so much damage has already been done, I think it's probably best to run with a part of this, make large swaths of America the kind of psychotic amount of living space that living space types need, and then, if they are still problematic, we will know that this war and violence wasn't about living space... it was about violence the whole time.



Or maybe they actually find ways of making the land interesting, who can say?


Either way maybe something good comes of some of this... that's why there was so much migration to America over the last forever, just open land. It's the old Germanic dreams of land conquest combined with the Marchfelde concept with no resistance.


All made possible by the airplane I suppose, in truth, it was the airplane and planes all along which created a current crazy environment.



Many Anglos are special needs types, they barely make it through the most basic parts of school because of near-autism needs and other special needs, perhaps they can only live with the hope that they won't be surrounded by many other sapiens (like how fish can't leave the sea, perhaps certain Anglos can't leave or survive without open expanses of land?)
 
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Jul 2017
335
Argentina
#15
Hey Mars
I'd like to say thanks for reading the thread. But you clearly didn't, since it's not about "lebensruam".

Hey Number... woman participating were not cynic. The program offered them some welfare. May be it was enough to convince those un poor situation.
May be some were participating without even knowing about the racist ends of the program.
 

arkteia

Ad Honorem
Nov 2012
4,427
Seattle
#16
I think that all parochial cultures were characterized by extremely wasteful attitude to women. Sacrifice a virgin or enslave participants in Lebensborn, it is all shameful and unnecessary. And plus...

Just because the women in the occupied countries were not raped to get pregnant in the context of Lebensborn program does not mean lack of coercion to me. And in some cases I am positive the situations would amount to statutory rape. And mostly - the women could be German or not, but the fathers were German. In WWII-torn Europe, this gives the father all the power. So at best, it was "forced willingness" on the womens' part.

Speaking of ABBA, Anni-Frid's mother was 19 when she gave birth to her only child. Being only 13 when Norway was occupied. She spent all teenage years under German power. Anni-Frid's father was a German and 7 years older than the mother... And much as there was no issue of love, there probably were some material incentives. So all of it together, cold, rations, heavy German rule, very young women... for them, chocolate and silk pantyhose might have been enough, and we do not know what else was offered. There should have been some financial gain. Maybe their own fiances were killed, or they were somehow hopeless to find men, who knows?

For the Norwegians to take their ire on these women and kids is morally the same as the French shaving the heads of their women who slept with the Germans and calling it a day.

For both countries - one had Vichy government, the other, Quisling, both sent their Jews to extermination camps, both had too many men, who collaborated at least by working for the Nazis. Taking it all later on own young, coerced, confused women (and their kids) after the war to me looks like an attempt to hide the obvious fact, that both nations slept with the enemy.

General observation:

The scenario in which the conquerors, to show their spite to the conquered men, rape, coerce or seduce their women, and then later, when the conquered men throw off the yoke, they take their anger on own raped women and their kids, repeats itself times and again. In all cultures.

In religious terms, if your enemy spitefully desecrated your nation's holy vessels and you powerless to take it on the enemy, you break the vessels since they are not sacred any more.

It is a shame.
 
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arkteia

Ad Honorem
Nov 2012
4,427
Seattle
#17
Own experience is limited, except for, as (I am sure) many others participating in genealogy, I once received a letter from a German man asking to help him find his Russian father.

Not Lebensborn- but he stated he was conceived in Germany during the Soviet occupation, that his father "treated his mother very well and there was no coercion"...I don't remember the details, but he ended up in an orphanage and his life was horrible, comparable to the Lebensborn children.

What impressed me most was his need to find someone who, he believed, loved him. It was the lovelessness of his life that was so saddening. I would not be surprised if many Lebensborns experienced the same. Even for Anni-Frid, a successful woman, meeting her father marked the onset of depression, and she probably fared the best of all. (Her being a Lebensborn, growing up without the father and losing own mother at 2 y. of age might have indirectly shaped her own life, as she, too, later left her children with her first husband to embark on a singing career. Professionally, probably the right choice, but real mother she never was).

So I don't believe what will help the Lebensborns most. They probably can be reunited with their biological families today. But first of all, ...maybe the Norwegian government should publicly apologize to them and acknowledge that they were subjected to needless suffering and discrimination?
 
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Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,362
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#18
My grandpa was born in 1940 and the war in Yugoslavia started in April the next year. Germany occupied Lower Styria and practically emptied the region my grandpa was from to make room for Germans from the Gottschee (Kočevje), which was in the Italian sector of occupation. They gave those Slovenes about 15 min time to pack the bare neccessities and then they were put on trains organised by Adolf Eichman. Most were sent to NDH Croatia and Serbia, some, like my grandpa's family, were sent to Germany (Saxony, I think?) to do forced labour. They took the older kids away from their parents and gave them to German families to raise. I only have the account of one of grandpa's older sisters. She said the family she stayed at were kind people and took good care of her, buying her clothes and everything. She attended a German school and learned the language. At the end of the war her father came to pick her up. Her foster family wanted her to stay since they became fond of her but great grandpa said "I brought 6 children to Germany, I want to return home with just as many". She was eager to return to her real family as well. Worth mentioning is that my grandpa's family was deemed racially appropriate for such acts. Were they not, they'd probably face a worse faith.

There was also the case with the kids of some of the first killed Styrian partisans. They were mainly from the Savinja valley and the surrounding areas of Celje. Those kids became orphans or lost at least part of their family. They were taken and sent to special orphanages in the Reich, where they tried to raise them as true Aryans, they were subject to brutal germanisation and treated very badly by the nurses, who were cold and harsh. Most of those kids (some died during the war as conditions weren't the best) managed to return home, the younger ones often didn't know any Slovene anymore. However, I don't remember anymore whose effort it was to bring them home but I doubt the new communist government did much in that direction ...

All Slovenes in occupied Lower Styria were subject to racial examination and they were given different forms of citizenship according to how aryan their appearance was. All had to join the "Steirischer Heimatbund", a subdivision of the "Kärnter Heimatdienst", an organisation whose aim it was to germanise the entire region in accordance with Hitler's wishes and the Windische theory. Slovene was pretty much forbidden in public and schools, where all kids had to learn German. A lot of the adults would already know German from Austria-Hungary, which was only 20-some years ago and the dialects were somewhat of a help since we Styrians use a ton of German loanwords - this gave the rise to the Windische theory in the first place. As most Slovene Styrians were deemed racially acceptable, they'd simply germanize them in the years after the war. The same was happening in Carinthia successfully decades before nazism arose.

I can't say if there was a lot of kids born out of wedlock with German soldiers. Any German whores would be despised after the war. Most of the local Germans fled before the end of the war. The remainder was interned in camps where many died of mistreatment or were simply shot, not necessarrily by partisans. Unless they helped or were part of the resistance movement, they got expelled and their property seized. Some Germans from mixed marriages were given the choice to stay and naturalise or leave. The ones who stayed were treated badly, discriminised against, teased in school, couldn't get better jobs, the government was always suspicious of them because Germans were seen as the eternal enemy basically until the breakup of Yugoslavia (although that was more a Serbian mentality, it seems). Because of poor treatements many Germans didn't teach their kids the language or even tell them they were German. This further reduced the size of this once prominent ethnic minority.
 

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