How has military expenditure skyrocketed?

Status
Closed
Jul 2016
9,307
USA
#71
This addresses what I said in what way? I'll restate m points

1: The US is not the only country on Earth
2: While large compared to past US budgets, it is fairly typical of historical budgets globally.
3: World military spending is at it's lowest point in history compared to economy and government expenditure.

A rant about the petrodollar addressed none of that. Please either address my points or move on.
The Petrodollar stuff, while true, still doesn't explain it as evidence of some massive conspiracy involving the power of the defense industry. Like any special interest group that has MASSIVE funding to offer politicians for campaigns, its going to have power, influence, more so than a single middle class voter.

But that's no different than anything else. We see the same with various other powerful industries like entertainment, environmental groups, energy sectors, etc. All have far more power than they should.

Hell, the public school unions in some states have MAJOR power now because they can deliver votes, which then ends with teachers working nine months a year and making six figures, with school district administrators often having 2-3 different jobs, each with its own full time six figure salary. This is real, happens on a major scale in numerous states in the US, and yet would anyone really claim that the teachers run America? No, they just have power enough to get noticed, because they're organized as a special interest group. The answer is too simple for some people, who want to see nefarious motives and conspiracy as the only logical answer.
 

Isoroku295

Ad Honorem
Jan 2009
8,487
In the Past
#72
The Petrodollar stuff, while true, still doesn't explain it as evidence of some massive conspiracy involving the power of the defense industry. Like any special interest group that has MASSIVE funding to offer politicians for campaigns, its going to have power, influence, more so than a single middle class voter.

But that's no different than anything else. We see the same with various other powerful industries like entertainment, environmental groups, energy sectors, etc. All have far more power than they should.

Hell, the public school unions in some states have MAJOR power now because they can deliver votes, which then ends with teachers working nine months a year and making six figures, with school district administrators often having 2-3 different jobs, each with its own full time six figure salary. This is real, happens on a major scale in numerous states in the US, and yet would anyone really claim that the teachers run America? No, they just have power enough to get noticed, because they're organized as a special interest group. The answer is too simple for some people, who want to see nefarious motives and conspiracy as the only logical answer.
That is all entirely correct.

Of course, Athena's bringing it up while replying to me didn't have any meaningful explained tie to my statements about military spending being at a historical low.
 
Jul 2016
9,307
USA
#73
That is all entirely correct.

Of course, Athena's bringing it up while replying to me didn't have any meaningful explained tie to my statements about military spending being at a historical low.
She already had a bias wanting to believe that those sorts of conspiracy existed, so when she found out about Ike's speech and then about the Petrodollar, instead of placing them in the context of "This is normal when considering that the US is the largest global power in human existence", instead it proves to her that her preconceived bias was entirely correct.
 

Isoroku295

Ad Honorem
Jan 2009
8,487
In the Past
#74
She already had a bias wanting to believe that those sorts of conspiracy existed, so when she found out about Ike's speech and then about the Petrodollar, instead of placing them in the context of "This is normal when considering that the US is the largest global power in human existence", instead it proves to her that her preconceived bias was entirely correct.
Some people are like that. Conspiracy theorists tie everything in, especially when it sounds conspiracyish
 
Jul 2016
9,307
USA
#75
Some people are like that. Conspiracy theorists tie everything in, especially when it sounds conspiracyish
I had a class in college, capstone history class. Our professor had us watching various films about assassination conspiracies, legends, etc. All to show the dangers of history, that the human mind often wants to create explanations that suit them. When it came to major socio-political events, nobody wants to accept the simple explanation, its too boring for such an emotional and important event.

Princess Di is a perfect example. Her driver floors it to outrun the paperazzi chasing them, causing an accident at high speeds which kills her and her fiancee. Too simple, needs more drama. Better story: Queen E. didn't like that Di was going to marry a Muslim, so had her assassinated. Ahhh, there we go, so much better of a story! Now that makes sense! Because princesses don't die in car wrecks!
 

Isoroku295

Ad Honorem
Jan 2009
8,487
In the Past
#76
I had a class in college, capstone history class. Our professor had us watching various films about assassination conspiracies, legends, etc. All to show the dangers of history, that the human mind often wants to create explanations that suit them. When it came to major socio-political events, nobody wants to accept the simple explanation, its too boring for such an emotional and important event.

Princess Di is a perfect example. Her driver floors it to outrun the paperazzi chasing them, causing an accident at high speeds which kills her and her fiancee. Too simple, needs more drama. Better story: Queen E. didn't like that Di was going to marry a Muslim, so had her assassinated. Ahhh, there we go, so much better of a story! Now that makes sense! Because princesses don't die in car wrecks!
Of course. We want order. Major events can't be random, because that isn't condusive to a world where things work within a range of order. If such chaos can be caused by sheer entropy, we don't feel safe. We need to know that it was under our control. These things happened because we made them happen. Even if it makes us far darker as a species.
 
Likes: aggienation

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
#77
This addresses what I said in what way? I'll restate m points

1: The US is not the only country on Earth
2: While large compared to past US budgets, it is fairly typical of historical budgets globally.
3: World military spending is at it's lowest point in history compared to economy and government expenditure.

A rant about the petrodollar addressed none of that. Please either address my points or move on.
That was much more along the line of an informed and intelligent reply that I expect from Historum.

Historically military technology has gotten increasingly more expensive and this has even lead to kings loosing their thrones. Is that what this thread about? It was perhaps obnoxious of me to assume the thread was about the US. I hope I remember to not assume such a thing again. And when it comes to military spending Saudi Arabia as at the top of the list of nations with an increased military budget. Is that what this thread is about, the historical increase in the cost of military spending because of changing military technology?

I do not understand what you mean by the US spending being in line with other countries? Many countries spend much more on social well being than the US and all charts I have seen show US military spending to be much greater than what other countries spend. However, proportionally Isreal and Saudi Arabia may be up there with the US? I have heard comments that some nations are not spending as much they should for military defense.

It follows that I do not have the information necessary for understanding your third statement? Do you have pie charts that might support your statement?

Also, your final statement seems to be an opinion not a statement of fact. It also seems to be ignoring the facts that have been presented. Please clarify why your opinion is different from the facts or shut up. :lol: That was a little tit for tat. I have been listening to lecture on writing books that can be published. What you said about the petrodollar would not get your book published. You need to support what you have said with some facts and charts.
 
Last edited:

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
#78
I had a class in college, capstone history class. Our professor had us watching various films about assassination conspiracies, legends, etc. All to show the dangers of history, that the human mind often wants to create explanations that suit them. When it came to major socio-political events, nobody wants to accept the simple explanation, its too boring for such an emotional and important event.

Princess Di is a perfect example. Her driver floors it to outrun the paperazzi chasing them, causing an accident at high speeds which kills her and her fiancee. Too simple, needs more drama. Better story: Queen E. didn't like that Di was going to marry a Muslim, so had her assassinated. Ahhh, there we go, so much better of a story! Now that makes sense! Because princesses don't die in car wrecks!
Oh yes! The lectures about writing that I am listening to now are in complete agreement with what you said. The lecturer said we should avoid dressing up the boring facts like that if we are claiming to write historical non-fiction instead of fiction. I do think the words "conspiracy" and "rant" are examples of loaded words that should be avoided. They discredit the writer and lead to arguments that do not interest me.
 

athena

Ad Honorem
Jan 2010
5,032
Eugene, Oregon
#79
She already had a bias wanting to believe that those sorts of conspiracy existed, so when she found out about Ike's speech and then about the Petrodollar, instead of placing them in the context of "This is normal when considering that the US is the largest global power in human existence", instead it proves to her that her preconceived bias was entirely correct.
Excuse me, perhaps if you want to maintain a high standard of posting you should address what I say are facts and argue them, instead of expressing your opinion about me. That was in last nights lecture on good writing. You do not know me and should not be writing about me. Please keep your work honest. How about Nixon and the Petrodollar and why we are locked into supporting Saudi Arabia? That is something we should write off as just conspiracy theory or making boring facts exciting? o_O

I was going to drop what the Prussian generals have to do with changing the US and war in general, but maybe we should question if Dr. Naumann's vision did fundamentally change the way people think about the industrial connection with the military, and why did J. A. B. Sinclair say we should imitate the Germans at the 1917 National Education Association Conference? It might be pertinent to this thread to say before such changes, wars did not involve every man, woman, and child in the fight against the enemy. Historically they could all be victims of an invasion, but they were not seen as important to the organization of defense. Civilians were not always the target of military action.

I began collecting books written when history was made about 30 years ago and I am very willing to share the information in them. Eisenhower's warning was unknown to me when I started putting pieces of the puzzle together. It was actually Charles Sarolea's book written before the first world war that led me to research the documents of Eisenhower's administration that are in the O of U library. And it was the recession caused by the OPEC embargo of oil to the US that led me to pay more attention to the 1920 newspaper that "Given our known supply and rate of consumption we are head for economic disaster and possibly war". That lead to me meeting the geologist/professor. My shelves are mostly full of books about education because that has always been my main focus. The books about Germany are there because we adopted German education. Please attack my facts if you like but do not write as though you know me. You do not know me.
 

Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
33,650
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#80
You don't "collect history books". You collect pieces that only validate your pre-conceptions. You've already demonstrated that several times.

All this nonsense is demonstrably false, if you bother to look for five minutes, and it has gone on for long enough.

THREAD CLOSED.
 
Status
Closed