How has South Africa fared after apartheid?

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,188
Brassicaland
#1
Don't attempt to paint a glorified apartheid era picture; I know that South Africa was never a developed country.
Then, most people cherish the end of apartheid; the picture after the apartheid is quite mixed, I heard.
Economic progresses are made; how well are the gains shared?
How has the deep-rooted issues been resolved?
What is the future of South Africa?
 
Nov 2011
8,771
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
#2
Don't attempt to paint a glorified apartheid era picture; I know that South Africa was never a developed country.
Then, most people cherish the end of apartheid; the picture after the apartheid is quite mixed, I heard.
Economic progresses are made; how well are the gains shared?
How has the deep-rooted issues been resolved?
What is the future of South Africa?
I used to start any presentation to overseas business partners with the statement that--
"South Africa is a First World Country with Third World problems".

Now one could modify that to stating that is now a Third World Country with First World problems as well.


If you want to analyse the economic condition of South Africa, simply read the OECD reports for the past decade----and then translate the politically correct terms into plain English-----for instance, here is part of the OECD report on South Africa 2017 Executive Summary:-

"Macroeconomic policies are constrained. Fiscal space is
limited and higher interest payments push public debt
up. There is scope to increase the effectiveness and mix
of government spending. Also, improvements in the
governance of state-owned enterprises are needed"


Translation

"The Government has spent too much money, borrowed irresponsibly. driven the currency into the ground and turned the nation's credit rating into junk status so that interest on new debt is unsustainable."

"The Government can try spending on important things rather than pouring it down the drain on vanity projects and enriching the corrupt leadership with theft of public funds".

"Something must be done about incompetence and corruption".

It goes on:-

Skills shortages and mismatches are key bottlenecks to
growth and inclusiveness. Access to higher education
has improved but remains limited



Affirmative action was a bit premature wasn't it? All that money spent on limousines, fancy houses, interminable conferences and public sector salaries for party faithful could have been spent on education, especially trade schools and charging poor people for higher education means that poor people don't get educated--nor does reducing standards to the lowest level actually provide an educated population.

It gets worse, but most people will get the gist.


All is not gloom---as of 2016 90% of households had access to piped water, 84% had access to electricity and access to free health services has improved--which is all very well if people can afford the water and electricity bills and the supplies ar there in the first place--mismanagement, corruption and ideology has seen regular electricity shortages, the first serious drought since the ANC taken over has shown that the national water resource has been seriously mismanaged and in most cases, better health services have been dependent on political loyalty and a trougher and skimmers heaven.

Of course it is simple to sit back and say, oh look at those thicko Africans--couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery, but that would not really reflect what has happened. If you have never run a country before, or a large enterprise, or even been middle management in one--you look for help and advice. From the outset the new ANC government brought in the big International consultants--KMPG, Accenture and more recently McKinstry plus load of "economic consultants" from all corners of the planet. Looking back, it seems that the employment of consultants whose background is in business improvement that entails "sweating the assets", "outsourcing" and "lean human capital" is incompatible with a socially responsible government that wants to expand employment, increase incomes and convert a primary industry heavy economy into a developed one.
But they did.
The (relatively modest) tariff protections for South African industries and agriculture were largely removed leading to a decline in manufactures and agricultural production while at the same time "red tape" for new businesses, licenses, approvals, zoning etc. were increased (as were the opportunities for bribes and graft).

As for "things are worse than under Apartheid"--practical Apartheid was
mainly gone de facto by 1991 and de jure in 1994--thus to have lived as an adult during practical Apartheid one would need to be over 45 years old, so take such comments from where they come and the categorisation of South Africa as a "developed" or "developing country" then or now depends where you are standing.
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
12,542
#4
I used to start any presentation to overseas business partners with the statement that--
"South Africa is a First World Country with Third World problems".

Now one could modify that to stating that is now a Third World Country with First World problems as well.


If you want to analyse the economic condition of South Africa, simply read the OECD reports for the past decade----and then translate the politically correct terms into plain English-----for instance, here is part of the OECD report on South Africa 2017 Executive Summary:-

"Macroeconomic policies are constrained. Fiscal space is
limited and higher interest payments push public debt
up. There is scope to increase the effectiveness and mix
of government spending. Also, improvements in the
governance of state-owned enterprises are needed"


Translation

"The Government has spent too much money, borrowed irresponsibly. driven the currency into the ground and turned the nation's credit rating into junk status so that interest on new debt is unsustainable."

"The Government can try spending on important things rather than pouring it down the drain on vanity projects and enriching the corrupt leadership with theft of public funds".

"Something must be done about incompetence and corruption".

It goes on:-

Skills shortages and mismatches are key bottlenecks to
growth and inclusiveness. Access to higher education
has improved but remains limited



Affirmative action was a bit premature wasn't it? All that money spent on limousines, fancy houses, interminable conferences and public sector salaries for party faithful could have been spent on education, especially trade schools and charging poor people for higher education means that poor people don't get educated--nor does reducing standards to the lowest level actually provide an educated population.

It gets worse, but most people will get the gist.


All is not gloom---as of 2016 90% of households had access to piped water, 84% had access to electricity and access to free health services has improved--which is all very well if people can afford the water and electricity bills and the supplies ar there in the first place--mismanagement, corruption and ideology has seen regular electricity shortages, the first serious drought since the ANC taken over has shown that the national water resource has been seriously mismanaged and in most cases, better health services have been dependent on political loyalty and a trougher and skimmers heaven.

Of course it is simple to sit back and say, oh look at those thicko Africans--couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery, but that would not really reflect what has happened. If you have never run a country before, or a large enterprise, or even been middle management in one--you look for help and advice. From the outset the new ANC government brought in the big International consultants--KMPG, Accenture and more recently McKinstry plus load of "economic consultants" from all corners of the planet. Looking back, it seems that the employment of consultants whose background is in business improvement that entails "sweating the assets", "outsourcing" and "lean human capital" is incompatible with a socially responsible government that wants to expand employment, increase incomes and convert a primary industry heavy economy into a developed one.
But they did.
The (relatively modest) tariff protections for South African industries and agriculture were largely removed leading to a decline in manufactures and agricultural production while at the same time "red tape" for new businesses, licenses, approvals, zoning etc. were increased (as were the opportunities for bribes and graft).

As for "things are worse than under Apartheid"--practical Apartheid was
mainly gone de facto by 1991 and de jure in 1994--thus to have lived as an adult during practical Apartheid one would need to be over 45 years old, so take such comments from where they come and the categorisation of South Africa as a "developed" or "developing country" then or now depends where you are standing.
I'll add that in 50 years the population has tripled...and quatrupled over 70 years...... Whites were about 20% in 1960 less than 9% now

Demography is a very much overlooked topic in both economy and warfare...
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,653
Vilnius, Lithuania
#5
South Africa was never a developed country.
By African standards SA was very developed. South Africans secretly developed
nuclear, chemical, biological weapons, rocket technologies ( many of these programs were canceled after 1990 ).
 
Nov 2011
8,771
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
#6
I'll add that in 50 years the population has tripled...and quatrupled over 70 years...... Whites were about 20% in 1960 less than 9% now

Demography is a very much overlooked topic in both economy and warfare...
Total population in 1961--17million (official) probably 20 million.
Total population in 2017 56.7 million (official probably 60 million0

The population growth rate has been modest by African standard--under 2.5% in the 1960s and hovering around 2% through much of the seventies and dropping to 1.6% in the 21st Century--that was easily accommodated in the 1960s with economic growth rates averaging 6-7% (up to 10% in some years) and even when the economy tanked after the Soweto riots or the Debt standstill, growth bounced back to give an average in the 1970s of 4.5% pa and even 3% in the 1980s--but after a few good years from 2000 to 2010 with 3-4% growth rate things have dropped to well below population growth rate and likely negative (as it is now) for quite some time.
 

Willempie

Ad Honorem
Jul 2015
4,389
Netherlands
#7
Of course it is simple to sit back and say, oh look at those thicko Africans--couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery, but that would not really reflect what has happened. If you have never run a country before, or a large enterprise, or even been middle management in one--you look for help and advice. From the outset the new ANC government brought in the big International consultants--KMPG, Accenture and more recently McKinstry plus load of "economic consultants" from all corners of the planet. Looking back, it seems that the employment of consultants whose background is in business improvement that entails "sweating the assets", "outsourcing" and "lean human capital" is incompatible with a socially responsible government that wants to expand employment, increase incomes and convert a primary industry heavy economy into a developed one.
But they did.
Didn't quote the rest as i would like to focus on this. Consultancy is a scourge for people who don't know their business. This one is a case in point: You have a government with no experience and few real qualified people. Because they don't really know what to do, they take every advice they can get. The real problem with that is that of the consultants only 30% of them (independent of seniority or education) knows what they are talking about. They would have been better served by hiring a couple of (former) officials or ministers from countries with similar problems. Eg Russia, Kenya, Canada (for the mining) etc. These consultancy types bombard you with fancy sheets, reports and presentations, but the quality of the advice is often on the same level as painting advice from Ray Charles.
 

Shtajerc

Ad Honorem
Jul 2014
6,323
Lower Styria, Slovenia
#8
Since the end of Apartheid they seem to be sailing on the ship of ouaisouezcangseury, not unlike certain othet parts of Africa.
 

Belgarion

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,490
Australia
#9
Since throwing of the shackles of the evil white minority government South Africa has become a land of milk and honey, a veritable Utopia where there is liberty, justice and equality. A shining beacon of hope in an evil European dominated world.......
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,188
Brassicaland
#10
Didn't quote the rest as i would like to focus on this. Consultancy is a scourge for people who don't know their business. This one is a case in point: You have a government with no experience and few real qualified people. Because they don't really know what to do, they take every advice they can get. The real problem with that is that of the consultants only 30% of them (independent of seniority or education) knows what they are talking about. They would have been better served by hiring a couple of (former) officials or ministers from countries with similar problems. Eg Russia, Kenya, Canada (for the mining) etc. These consultancy types bombard you with fancy sheets, reports and presentations, but the quality of the advice is often on the same level as painting advice from Ray Charles.
Since Ray Charles was blind, is it the case that "when the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch"? Or is it that "painting advice from Ray Charles" means something that a person cannot possibly know?
George Bernard Shaw once stated "when a man teaches something he does not know to somebody else who has no aptitude for it, and gives him a certificate of proficiency, the latter has completed the education of a gentleman."
The above all means some essentially clueless or ignorant people trying to lead others to their ideals.
Do they understand the local needs and aspirations?
The Chinese idiom is 因地制宜 (suitability to the local needs); the Protestant Anthology's "Do unto others as you would that they should do unto you" isn't that golden at all; people have different needs and aspirations.
 

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