How long would the European colonization of the Philippines have to be delayed in order for the Philippines to become Muslim-majority?

robto

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
6,076
Lisbon, Portugal
#11
Why were the Dutch less interested in evangelization?

Also, had the Spanish and/or Portuguese controlled Malaysia and Indonesia, just how much more Christian do you think that these countries would have been today?
The Dutch East India Company (VOC) was in charge of the Dutch possessions in and around the Indian Ocean. They were a mega-corporation in charge of making profit - that was their only objective and the only reason that the company existed. They were a pretty much secular institution.

This is completely different in the case of the "Estado da Índia" of the Portuguese and the Viceroyalty of New Spain that were under the direct control of the Iberian Crowns (not a secular institution), and those Crowns received directives "Papal bills", with the purpose of evangelizing their "heathen" subjects.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
20,093
SoCal
#12
The Dutch East India Company (VOC) was in charge of the Dutch possessions in and around the Indian Ocean. They were a mega-corporation in charge of making profit - that was their only objective and the only reason that the company existed. They were a pretty much secular institution.

This is completely different in the case of the "Estado da Índia" of the Portuguese and the Viceroyalty of New Spain that were under the direct control of the Iberian Crowns (not a secular institution), and those Crowns received directives "Papal bills", with the purpose of evangelizing their "heathen" subjects.
Makes sense.

BTW, could you please answer my second question in the part of my post that you quoted above?
 
Aug 2019
7
Netherlands
#13
At wikipidia there is enough to read about hinduism and the history of the kingdoms and regions in the Philippines.

Of course the communities in the philippines had a very tribal character and paganism was prevalent, but the Philippino folklore is full with hindu based mythology with a high percentage of sanskrit words in their language. Also hindu artefacts have been found. Then it isn't logic to deny that those communities weren't experiencing some sort of hinduism or were religiously unaffected. Besides, the rajah rulers and upper classes identified theirselves with india's cultural and religious legacy, not the islamic legacy. Actually the rajah of cebu, who was very opposed to islam was killed in batlle with the sultanate of sulu.
There is also no evidence that islam was spiritually, culturally or politically mainstream in the philippines at any time.
It was only deeply rooted in some regions in the south when the spanish came. And that makes sense if you follow the colonial and modern history of that southern region in contrast with rest of todays philippines.
 

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Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,570
Portugal
#14
Why were the Dutch less interested in evangelization?

Also, had the Spanish and/or Portuguese controlled Malaysia and Indonesia, just how much more Christian do you think that these countries would have been today?
Makes sense.

BTW, could you please answer my second question in the part of my post that you quoted above?
Besides what robto said, and I agree with him, I think that the Dutch (as also later the French and the English) made a more pragmatical religious aproach. They didn't had the spirit of crusade of the Iberian kingdoms. But let us not forget that the same spirit also contributed to the initial take off of the discoveries.

As for the second question, yes, the Insulindia would be much more Christian, meaning here Catholic, but stating how much Catholic would be, in percentages, it is such a speculative exercise that would reach fiction. The examples of several territories in the Philippines, Timor, some Indonesia islands, Goa, can give us some hints about the differences in percentages.
 
Likes: Futurist
Aug 2019
7
Netherlands
#16
Philippines - Wikipedia
In the history section there are plenty of other directions to click, like the rajahnate of cebu for example.

Hinduism in the Philippines
Actually there were a lot of interesting connections with hinduism in the philippines and should be considered. How can it be that the philippines was politically, culturally and lingually (1/4th of the tagalog language has actually sanskrit origins) connected to the hindu world but religiously pure pagan? It doesn't make sense to me.
 
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Apr 2010
34,578
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#17
Besides what robto said, and I agree with him, I think that the Dutch (as also later the French and the English) made a more pragmatical religious aproach. They didn't had the spirit of crusade of the Iberian kingdoms. But let us not forget that the same spirit also contributed to the initial take off of the discoveries.
Probably because the Dutch and English were Protestant, rather than Catholic.
 
May 2016
5,570
Portugal
#18
Philippines - Wikipedia

In the history section there are plenty of other directions to click, like the rajahnate of cebu for example.

Hinduism in the Philippines
Actually there were a lot of interesting connections with hinduism in the philippines and should be considered. How can it be that the philippines was politically, culturally and lingually (1/4th of the tagalog language has actually sanskrit origins) connected to the hindu world but religiously pure pagan? It doesn't make sense to me.
Thank you.

I had already searched here:

Hinduism in the Philippines - Wikipedia,

and here: Religion in pre-colonial Philippines - Wikipedia

It is more on less on the same line that in your link here: Hinduism in the Philippines), but the one that you pointed states “Hinduism has a long historical influence in the Philippines, but recent archaeological and other evidence suggests Hinduism has had some cultural, economic, political and religious influence in the archipelago.” So, according to it, the evidences suggest Hindu cultural influence. He can’t state that there was. Even so I must admit that previously I didn’t had the idea that the Hinduism influence had reach that much in the Philippines area.

Probably because the Dutch and English were Protestant, rather than Catholic.
More than a probability it is an explanation, as already quite well pointed in post #11 by robto. But far from being the only explanation, as can be seen in the case of the French. And in some way also because the Portuguese and Castilian didn’t had the spirit of Crusade as their prime objective, as we had seen before during the most of the so called Crusades. The prime objective both for Catholics and Protestants was to make money.
 
Apr 2010
34,578
T'Republic of Yorkshire
#19
More than a probability it is an explanation, as already quite well pointed in post #11 by robto. But far from being the only explanation, as can be seen in the case of the French. And in some way also because the Portuguese and Castilian didn’t had the spirit of Crusade as their prime objective, as we had seen before during the most of the so called Crusades. The prime objective both for Catholics and Protestants was to make money.
I'm not so sure about that. The Jesuits in Japan were in active search of converts, successfully converting and co-opting a number of Kyushu daimyo and being gifted the port of Nagasaki. They weren't just in search of profit - they were using their money and technology as a means to win over the local lords. A number of samurai converted in order to gain their help.

The Dutch were much more mercenary. They were interested in gold, not God.
 
May 2016
5,570
Portugal
#20
I'm not so sure about that. The Jesuits in Japan were in active search of converts, successfully converting and co-opting a number of Kyushu daimyo and being gifted the port of Nagasaki. They weren't just in search of profit - they were using their money and technology as a means to win over the local lords. A number of samurai converted in order to gain their help.

The Dutch were much more mercenary. They were interested in gold, not God.
I didn’t understood of what part that I said you are not sure.

You are mentioning the Jesuits. The Jesuits were not the Portuguese crown. They were a religious order, meaning in this case, a Papal organization, with their own agenda.

In the specific case of Japan, they were also a Portuguese tool, much more than a Castilian one, and to be clear, by Portuguese I mean the Portuguese crown. Even when the two crowns had the same heads, the crowns had quite different perspectives in East Asia. For instance the Dominicans and Franciscans, other two religious orders, were much more a tool of the Castilian crown in the area.

Back to the Jesuits, there were places that they even opposed to the interests of the Portuguese and Castilian crowns, let us recall the South American reductions.

And Back to Japan, the trade route that the Portuguese controlled to Nagasaki was one of the most rentable one in the Empire. So even in Japan the prime motif was profit, both for the Portuguese and Castilian, since that in the trade route to Nagasaki there was a strong competition between Macau and Manila.

But I agree with your sentence: "The Dutch were much more mercenary. They were interested in gold, not God." Even if the Iberians prime interest was Gold, they were also quite interested in religious affairs. Concern that we almost didn't saw among the Dutch.
 

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