How many Punjabis moved to other parts of Pakistan after independence?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,606
SoCal
#1
How many Punjabis moved to other parts of Pakistan (as in, other than the Punjab) after independence?

I'm curious about this because the demographic position of Punjabis in Pakistan is comparable to the demographic position of Russians in the Soviet Union before 1991. In both cases, they were the dominant ethnicity and made up slightly more than half of the country's total population. Since I know that a lot of Russians moved to other parts of the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1991, I was wondering if Punjabis in Pakistan did something similar in the years and decades after Pakistan acquired its independence.

My hunch is that few Punjabis moved out of Punjab after Pakistan's independence--though I haven't actually found any data to confirm this. Of course, this would raise the question of why Punjabis didn't move out of Punjab and into other parts of Pakistan in large numbers.

Any thoughts on all of this?
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,564
New Delhi, India
#2
I do not think we have statistics on this. We see some poor Muslim Punjabi folk singers on TV, perhaps from Malerkotla, the state which was not disturbed during partition, and we love them for their accomplishment.
 
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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,564
New Delhi, India
#3
Not many. Those who remained (most poor), continued to stay. However, I may mention that a large number of Muslims now come/stay in Punjab from many states for employment (Rajasthan, UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Madhya Pradesh, etc.), particularly in the agricultural sector.
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
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SoCal
#4
Not many. Those who remained (most poor), continued to stay. However, I may mention that a large number of Muslims now come/stay in Punjab from many states for employment (Rajasthan, UP, Bihar, West Bengal, Madhya Pradesh, etc.), particularly in the agricultural sector.
What about Pakistani Punjab? Do a lot of people from other parts of Pakistan move there to work?
 

Shaheen

Ad Honorem
May 2011
2,537
Sweden
#5
How many Punjabis moved to other parts of Pakistan (as in, other than the Punjab) after independence?

I'm curious about this because the demographic position of Punjabis in Pakistan is comparable to the demographic position of Russians in the Soviet Union before 1991. In both cases, they were the dominant ethnicity and made up slightly more than half of the country's total population. Since I know that a lot of Russians moved to other parts of the Soviet Union between 1917 and 1991, I was wondering if Punjabis in Pakistan did something similar in the years and decades after Pakistan acquired its independence.

My hunch is that few Punjabis moved out of Punjab after Pakistan's independence--though I haven't actually found any data to confirm this. Of course, this would raise the question of why Punjabis didn't move out of Punjab and into other parts of Pakistan in large numbers.

Any thoughts on all of this?
No, Punjabis generally stick to Punjab and very few venture outside, and if so then to Karachi generally speaking due to job opportunities. Why they dont move out? Well largely because it is in the Punjab that the strongest job opportunities lie. Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, Sialkot are major urban centers employing everything from laborers in textile/sports goods factories to professors in major academic institutes. Rurally speaking the Punjab is the most fertile part of Pakistan and as such employment in the rural areas is also strong meaning there is very little need to venture outside.
Karachi is the only other center in Pakistan which can compare (and many times outcompetes) Punjab when it comes to job opportunities. It is as such the only place where Punjabis have generally moved to if they have ventured outside of Punjab.

Further despite what some may think Punjabis do not form the core of Pakistan in the same way that Russians did in the SU. The administrative language in Pakistan is not Punjabi and where Russians would move to far corners of the SU due to demand for their language skills, such is not the case for Punjabis. On top of this the SU was notorious for playing around with ethnic demographics and moving different groups around. Such a thing has not and frankly speaking cannot happen in Pakistan.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
19,606
SoCal
#6
No, Punjabis generally stick to Punjab and very few venture outside, and if so then to Karachi generally speaking due to job opportunities. Why they dont move out? Well largely because it is in the Punjab that the strongest job opportunities lie. Lahore, Faisalabad, Rawalpindi, Sialkot are major urban centers employing everything from laborers in textile/sports goods factories to professors in major academic institutes. Rurally speaking the Punjab is the most fertile part of Pakistan and as such employment in the rural areas is also strong meaning there is very little need to venture outside.
Karachi is the only other center in Pakistan which can compare (and many times outcompetes) Punjab when it comes to job opportunities. It is as such the only place where Punjabis have generally moved to if they have ventured outside of Punjab.
Very interesting!

Also, what about Islamabad?

Further despite what some may think Punjabis do not form the core of Pakistan in the same way that Russians did in the SU. The administrative language in Pakistan is not Punjabi and where Russians would move to far corners of the SU due to demand for their language skills, such is not the case for Punjabis. On top of this the SU was notorious for playing around with ethnic demographics and moving different groups around. Such a thing has not and frankly speaking cannot happen in Pakistan.
I thought that the main goal of Russian migration to other SSRs in the USSR was to help these other parts industrialize and develop?
 

Shaheen

Ad Honorem
May 2011
2,537
Sweden
#7
Very interesting!

Also, what about Islamabad?
Islamabad is on the edge of Punjab although yes today it is located in its own special capital territory. Historically this territory is part of the upper Punjab region however and as such not considered really to be outside Punjab per se.

I thought that the main goal of Russian migration to other SSRs in the USSR was to help these other parts industrialize and develop?
I wont claim to know much about the history of the SU/Russia so will accept being corrected. My impression however is that the Russians engaged in "civilizing" wild regions of their Empire, much like Americas Manifest Destiny, and this process involved moving ethnic Russians to the corners of their Empire and helping to Russify them. Something which would be unthinkable in the Punjabi/Pakistani context.
 
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Futurist

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May 2014
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SoCal
#8
Islamabad is on the edge of Punjab although yes today it is located in its own special capital territory. Historically this territory is part of the upper Punjab region however and as such not considered really to be outside Punjab per se.
OK; makes sense.

Also, I'm presuming that Islamabad would also have a lot of job opportunities right now due to it being the capital of Pakistan, correct?

I wont claim to know much about the history of the SU/Russia so will accept being corrected. My impression however is that the Russians engaged in "civilizing" wild regions of their Empire, much like Americas Manifest Destiny, and this process involved moving ethnic Russians to the corners of their Empire and helping to Russify them.
Yeah, that was probably a part of it.

Something which would be unthinkable in the Punjabi/Pakistani context.
Because Punjabis were not the elite of Pakistan, correct?
 

Shaheen

Ad Honorem
May 2011
2,537
Sweden
#9
OK; makes sense.

Also, I'm presuming that Islamabad would also have a lot of job opportunities right now due to it being the capital of Pakistan, correct?
Most job opportunities there are related to administrative positions. The financial capital is still Karachi.

Because Punjabis were not the elite of Pakistan, correct?
Its not as simple as one group being the elite. Rather each ethnic group has its elite class which plays a significant role in how national policy is shaped. No single group can dominate and Punjab more often than not has to sacrifice itself slightly and rightly for the greater good of the country. For example it takes less back in federal spending (NFC Award) than it contributes in taxes, all provinces have their provincial languages as mandatory whereas Punjab does not and so forth. Then there is the military angle. The military elite is comprised of generals from all kinds of backgrounds. If we look at the military dictators in Pakistan, Ayub Khan was a Pashtun from Hazara region, Musharraf was a Muhajir, Zia ul Haq was Punjabi. The democratically elected leaders have also come from various backgrounds. Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his daughter Benazir Bhutto were Sindhis. Asif Ali Zardari is a Balochi from Sindh. Imran Khan is an ethnic Pashtun from Punjab and so forth.

Unfortunately a misconception exists that Pakistan is simply a Punjabi dominated state, with certain Indian members especially reinforcing this view (probably their media keeps reinforcing this view). They will often take 71 as the ultimate example of "punjabi facism" as one Indian member is referring to in the Pakistan-Burma thread of yours. When Bangladesh seceeded from Pakistan, the prime minister of Pakistan was a Sindhi (Bhutto) and the crises started in earnest whilst the Pashtun Ayub Khan was the military dictator of the country. Even the Niazi Hardtackjunper is referring to are a Pashtun confederation (Niazi - Wikipedia ).