How much immigration would Austria-Hungary have gotten had it been more welcoming and had it survived?

Futurist

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May 2014
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#1
How much immigration would Austria-Hungary have gotten had it been more welcoming and had it survived? What I'm thinking of here is having A-H open its doors far and wide to immigrants from other countries just like the US did before 1882 and in regards to European immigration up to World War I. Also, I am thinking of having Austria-Hungary survive--for instance, by not having Kaiser Bill give A-H a blank check after FF's assassination in Sarajevo in June 1914.

Also, in addition to the quantity of A-H's immigration in this scenario, where are most of its immigrants going to come from? In addition, is this going to change over time?

Any thoughts on all of this?
 

Futurist

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May 2014
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#2
@deaf tuner: Do you have any wisdom to share in regards to this issue? ;)

BTW, I was thinking of having the Polish-majority and Ukrainian-majority parts of Austria be safe havens of sort for Poles and Ukrainians who dislike Russian oppression.
 
Jan 2013
973
Toronto, Canada
#3
How much immigration would Austria-Hungary have gotten had it been more welcoming and had it survived? What I'm thinking of here is having A-H open its doors far and wide to immigrants from other countries just like the US did before 1882 and in regards to European immigration up to World War I.
The kind of civic nationalism needed to integrate a large immigrant population was contrary to Hapsburg political ideology and far beyond Franz Joseph's political ability.

Also, I am thinking of having Austria-Hungary survive--for instance, by not having Kaiser Bill give A-H a blank check after FF's assassination in Sarajevo in June 1914.
It might have delayed Austria-Hungary's collapse, but it couldn't have stopped it.
 
Apr 2017
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#4
Austria-Hungary didn't need immigrants, they had a large surplus of people as it was. Many of them were leaving for other countries, around 3 million to America between 1890-1914 alone. If they wanted to attract skilled immigrants they would have to compete with the other major world countries and they would also have to stabilize their country first.
 

Tulun

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Nov 2010
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Western Eurasia
#5
Austria-Hungary didn't need immigrants, they had a large surplus of people as it was. Many of them were leaving for other countries, around 3 million to America between 1890-1914 alone. If they wanted to attract skilled immigrants they would have to compete with the other major world countries and they would also have to stabilize their country first.
This. Sure there were immigrants that time too, but overal the country had a negative net migration rate I think. Labor shortage would probably be a non-issue until the 1980-90s, maybe up to the 2000s (it is only now in the last years,maybe last decade or so when we truly start to face this big problem very seriously here in Central-Eastern and Eastern Europe, though demographists started to warn about its future coming already in the 80-90s). Developing agricultural technologies would free up most of the peasants for a very long time to work in industry. If labor shortages occured in certain sectors and areas, internal migration would solve it for a long time... then who knows what would happen after it, most likely no different than how Western and Western-Central European countries do it today, from the Balkans, Eastern Europe, Turkey, Middle East, Africa, Asia...

But this topic is a too vague speculation (how would it effect the whole international politics and global economy if A-H survives 1918... would there be other world wars, would alien space bats land here? ))
 
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Futurist

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#6
The kind of civic nationalism needed to integrate a large immigrant population was contrary to Hapsburg political ideology and far beyond Franz Joseph's political ability.
Franz Joseph was extremely old by the 1910s and thus likely to die soon, though.

It might have delayed Austria-Hungary's collapse, but it couldn't have stopped it.
Delayed it for how long?

Austria-Hungary didn't need immigrants, they had a large surplus of people as it was. Many of them were leaving for other countries, around 3 million to America between 1890-1914 alone. If they wanted to attract skilled immigrants they would have to compete with the other major world countries and they would also have to stabilize their country first.
Wasn't the A-H economy in good shape by the 1910s, though?

This. Sure there were immigrants that time too, but overal the country had a negative net migration rate I think. Labor shortage would probably be a non-issue until the 1980-90s, maybe up to the 2000s (it is only now in the last years,maybe last decade or so when we truly start to face this big problem very seriously here in Central-Eastern and Eastern Europe, though demographists started to warn about its future coming already in the 80-90s).
You're going to be experiencing much more of a labor shortage in the future due to population decline unless you are successfully able to automate large numbers of jobs with robots.

Developing agricultural technologies would free up most of the peasants for a very long time to work in industry. If labor shortages occured in certain sectors and areas, internal migration would solve it for a long time...
The US has relied on immigrants to close its labor shortages for the last 50-55 years even though it could have relied on internal migration in regards to this, no?

then who knows what would happen after it, most likely no different than how Western and Western-Central European countries do it today, from the Balkans, Eastern Europe, Turkey, Middle East, Africa, Asia...
Which areas do you think are going to be the more popular immigrant destinations for Austria-Hungary? After all, in real life, Eastern Europe isn't actually willing to accept large numbers of Muslim immigrants--presumably due to their concerns that what already happened in Western Europe will repeat itself in Eastern Europe if they will do this.

But this topic is a too vague speculation (how would it effect the whole international politics and global economy if A-H survives 1918... would there be other world wars, would alien space bats land here? ))
TBH, I prefer a scenario where WWI doesn't occur at all for this.
 
Likes: sparticulous
Apr 2017
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#7
People were leaving Austria-Hungary because they wanted a better life without an oppressive government. They couldn't compete in that regard with America.
Even if Austria-Hungary transformed into a representative government there would be strong separatism movements that would tear the country apart. There was no saving it, the rise of nationalism had doomed the hodgepodge nation.
 
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Futurist

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#8
People were leaving Austria-Hungary because they wanted a better life without an oppressive government. They couldn't compete in that regard with America.
Even if Austria-Hungary transformed into a representative government there would be strong separatism movements that would tear the country apart. There was no saving it, the rise of nationalism had doomed the hodgepodge nation.
India is likewise diverse but hasn't broken up, though. Neither has Nigeria or Iraq.
 
Likes: sparticulous
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#9
India is likewise diverse but hasn't broken up, though. Neither has Nigeria or Iraq.
No comparison.
India has a shared culture, history and religion to bind it together; Nigeria doesn't have well developed nationality for the disparate groups and Iraq is only still together because strong dictators and foreign militaries held it so.
Austria-Hungary was a cluster of different ethnicities, religions and cultures, many of whom hated each other and expansionist independent states of various people were right on the border to absorb their related peoples. The germans were on top so they wanted to hold the empire together, the Hungarians only played along to hold their territories, the Czechs had enough and wanted out, the poles only put up with it because it was marginally better than being ruled by Germany or Russia, the Romanians, Italians and Serbs wanted out and the Slovenians and Croatians were on the fence because they were afraid it may be worse.
 
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Futurist

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#10
No comparison.
India has a shared culture, history and religion to bind it together; Nigeria doesn't have well developed nationality for the disparate groups and Iraq is only still together because strong dictators and foreign militaries held it so.
Nigerians don't have a developed sense of ethnicity? As for Iraq, it was able to hold itself together largely on its own during its recent war with ISIS. The US helped with airstrikes and providing technological and possibly intelligence assistance to the Iraqis but the Iraqis did the actual fighting themselves.

Austria-Hungary was a cluster of different ethnicities, religions and cultures, many of whom hated each other and expansionist independent states of various people were right on the border to absorb their related peoples. The germans were on top so they wanted to hold the empire together, the Hungarians only played along to hold their territories, the Czechs had enough and wanted out, the poles only put up with it because it was marginally better than being ruled by Germany or Russia, the Romanians, Italians and Serbs wanted out and the Slovenians and Croatians were on the fence because they were afraid it may be worse.
Fair enough, I suppose. That said, though, what if A-H is transformed into an ethnic federation similar to the United States of Greater Austria plan?