How much of the Spanish republics in the Spanish Civil War were Communists?

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#31
Paul Preston.. the Socialist Paul Preston.. because he is funded by PSOE....only says falsehood after falsehood based on falsehood...

Everybody can see how PSOE fund Paul Preston

La conferencia del historiador Paul Preston organizada por el Aula de Cultura del PSOE para este jueves se pospone - PSOE de Almería

Stanley Payne, Bernard Bolloten (Both from USA) or Ricardo de la Cierva dismantled all the falsehoods of the socialist Paul Preston (socialist for money, of course).

ver a million men, women, and children, killed

FALSE.. not even one evidence.. one prove.. nothing more than his ideology.. not internationa organism data.. nor Spanish records... no name, no place NOTHING... but his SOCIALIST thinking...

ter years in which there was widespread repression of peasants, miners, and industrial workers, ye

Really? Sure? Not difference than in Britain, Poland, Germany, France, Belgium, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Japan, USA, Russia etc etc.... at all..

In the middle of July 1936 right wing army officers rose in revolt against the elected government a

FALSE. Officers were Republicans (as Queipo de Llano, in fact, a hero for the republic because he was in a Republican Coup d´Etat in 1930 with Galán Brothers etc etc), Freemasons (as Cabanellas), Liberals (As Mola)-... etc etc.. not against an elected government.. because Frente Popular didn´t win the elections.. they took the power in February and they didn´t accept to count the votes..


1936 Elections. general considerations
How Popular Front manipulated the result in the polls
Fraud and violence in the 1936 elections. The only book written about 1936 elections.. with the evidence of the manipulations of the result....


The rights won the polls but the Frente Popular took the power and never never never published the result of the elections...

What's said, Paul Preston is nothing more than a disgusting scoundrel ... a miserable one who only says lies.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#32
By the way the disgusting Preston didn´t say who begun the bombers on Populations were the REDS.. las ALAS ROJAS (RED WINGS).. they bombed Tetuan in July 1936.. deliberately attacking the civilian population to provoke a rebellion of the Moors. They failed....
Or the Terror bombing in Cabra (Córdoba) by the Red Air Force. The goal was again attack civil population.



By the way you can see the FIVE POINTS RED STAR... the official ensign in the Spanish RED Air Force.
 
May 2011
13,911
Navan, Ireland
#33
Paul Preston.. the Socialist Paul Preston.. because he is funded by PSOE....only says falsehood after falsehood based on falsehood...............
Have you got any evidence that his work if funded by the PSOE?

And while you use the term Socialist as a term of abuse and dismiss in vitriolic language anyone or thing that do not hold your political values as 'Reds' for anyone trying to understand history they really should have a more measured appeoach.

Paul Preston is a well respected historian at a eminent British university and considered an 'expert' on Spanish history especially the Civil War.

People can read him and make their own minds up.

That said he was going to talk about his book -- he'd do that a lot-- not that they funded him.

Stanley Payne, Bernard Bolloten (Both from USA) or Ricardo de la Cierva dismantled all the falsehoods of the socialist Paul Preston (socialist for money, of course)............................
Bernard Bolloton died in 1987 Preston's Spanish Holocaust was first published in 2011 so how exactly did he unmask these 'falsehoods' from the grave?

And if his outlining of the terrible behaviour of the Nationalists as a 'falsehood' is his outlining of the terrible actions on the Republicans side equally false?

Have you even read him? or even a review of the book?



...........................FALSE.. not even one evidence.. one prove.. nothing more than his ideology.. not internationa organism data.. nor Spanish records... no name, no place NOTHING... but his SOCIALIST thinking....
How do you know? and has it ever occurred to you that you are politically biased? in fact your vitriolic rants against 'socialists and reds' neatly underline one of Prestons points of how the Nationalists viewed the Republican side.






The rights won the polls but the Frente Popular took the power and never never never published the result of the elections....
What's said, Paul Preston is nothing more than a disgusting scoundrel ... a miserable one who only says lies.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#34
Have you got any evidence that his work if funded by the PSOE?

And while you use the term Socialist as a term of abuse and dismiss in vitriolic language anyone or thing that do not hold your political values as 'Reds' for anyone trying to understand history they really should have a more measured appeoach.

Paul Preston is a well respected historian at a eminent British university and considered an 'expert' on Spanish history especially the Civil War.

People can read him and make their own minds up.



That said he was going to talk about his book -- he'd do that a lot-- not that they funded him.



Bernard Bolloton died in 1987 Preston's Spanish Holocaust was first published in 2011 so how exactly did he unmask these 'falsehoods' from the grave?

And if his outlining of the terrible behaviour of the Nationalists as a 'falsehood' is his outlining of the terrible actions on the Republicans side equally false?

Have you even read him? or even a review of the book?


How do you know? and has it ever occurred to you that you are politically biased? in fact your vitriolic rants against 'socialists and reds' neatly underline one of Prestons points of how the Nationalists viewed the Republican side.
I can see you don´t know how comunist-socialist-etc (funded, fund and will fund their propaganda net... as easy as to arrange an appointment to talk about your book (paid), a conference, a job, etc ... it is used by Cuba, Venezuela in 2019 or the PSOE and formerly DDR or CCCP.

Bollonton studied the Spanish Revolution (1931 - 1939)... and he just manifested who was the great gulty... and who commited most of the crimes.

And if his outlining of the terrible behaviour of the Nationalists as a 'falsehood' is his outlining of the terrible actions on the Republicans side equally false
?

Yes 100% is it is written by Preston is falsehood on falsehood... 100% no matter what he wrote.

Have you even read him? or even a review of the book?
I have his books.. his evil, diabolic and propagrandist books...books written by a man came from the scum. I can understand an ignorant ... like most of the leftists .. and I am benign with them .. but Preston is not ignorant .. he is a manipulator .. a mercenary paid by the PSOE.

Dear Kevin... Socialists and Reds are the same.... Socialists were REDS. (till the year 1979) PSOE sent their delegation to MOSCOW.. to the KOMITERN... in AUGUST, 1935.. no tale as in this forum some people wrote... PSOE has been PENETRATED by the SOVIETS from 1929....

ORIGINAL VIDEO... PSOE delegation speech in Moscow...everybody can read STALIN.. and what this man said... to organize a FRENTE POPULAR to take the power and doing the Revolution to become the Protelariat dictatorship.. He says... "la bandera roja del socialismo" (The Red Flag of Socialism) to CRUSH to extermiante the bourgeoisie through the Fight of classes. The guy say one day all the world will be under RED FLAG of the Soviet Socialist Republics...yes, Largo Caballero as Rakossi, Thaelman, Gramsci etc etc...The socialist says.. VIVA LA URSS...Long life the Soviet Union!.. Long life the World Revolution!

And the second member of the official delegation of PSOE says: preparar a las masas para el asalto al poder (prepare the masses for the assault on power )

August 1935.. few months later, the PSOE organized the POPULAR FRONT.. and in february the took the power.... not even they waited to count the votes.

Our common friend Johnincornwall speaks Spanish.. he can listen.. what I wrote it is what PSOE delegation said in Moscow in August 1935


Preston is a Liar.... a profesional liar when he says PSOE loved Democracy and liberalism... PSOE was Marxist.. and from 1929... penetrated by the Soviets.

Dear Kevin.. we agree in may others questions but no in this one.... your beloved Preston is only a SOCIALIST (by money, of course, but a socialist)...


This photo was not taken in Moscow... nor in Praha in 1949... it is Madrid:



Not only the portraits.. everybody can watch the symbols that dominated the gate.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#36
I believe Communists in pre war Spain were the inspiration for the judean People’s front skit. Few communists but many many splinter groups.
The great threat was not the PCE but PSOE... PSOE was most extremist and leftist than PCE... in fact, PCE was considered a "moderate" Party in the leftist faction
 
May 2011
13,911
Navan, Ireland
#37
I can see you don´t know how comunist-socialist-etc (funded, fund and will fund their propaganda net... as easy as to arrange an appointment to talk about your book (paid), a conference, a job, etc ... it is used by Cuba, Venezuela in 2019 or the PSOE and formerly DDR or CCCP.............
Sorry simply because you talk --as a history professor and book writing historian you will talk at many such things--- at an event its doesn't mean you are on their pay roll.

He is a professor at a London University and even guest speaks at many other universities including Harvard-- assume that makes them 'reds' as well.

Bollonton studied the Spanish Revolution (1931 - 1939)... and he just manifested who was the great gulty... and who commited most of the crimes.............
And died more than 20 years before the book you claimed he had debunked was written. In fact most of his work would have been done while the military dictator Franco and his proto-fascist regime was in power so perhaps there are thing he wasn't aware of.


Yes 100% is it is written by Preston is falsehood on falsehood... 100% no matter what he wrote.)............
So the atrocities that the Republicans committed that he outlines --he in no way denies them or glosses over them (that's not really likely if he is what you claim) are not true? you mean even your self is a liar and dishonest as you have ranted on here about the dreadful 'Reds'!!!!



I have his books.. his evil, diabolic and propagrandist books...books written by a man came from the scum. I can understand an ignorant ... like most of the leftists .. and I am benign with them .. but Preston is not ignorant .. he is a manipulator .. a mercenary paid by the PSOE.............
Any evidence to support these slurs?

Perhaps he just writes good history that doesn't fit in with your (rather politically biased) view of history and the vitriol you reserve for him is because he really rather undermines your beliefs.

A review of the book from the Daly Telegraph -- going to clam they are a 'red ' paper because if you do it will have have any educated/British person falling off their seats with laughter.

The Spanish Holocaust by Paul Preston: review

"...Preston’s book is an angry, scholarly revision of the civil war and the subsequent years of Franco’s dictatorship. The author charts the horror of a conflict in which he says 200,000 people were killed behind the front line, the vast majority of them by forces loyal to Franco and the generals. Most of the victims were either murdered outright, tortured to death or executed after the flimsiest judicial proceedings. Frequently their bodies were hidden or they were taken far from their homes to be slain.Preston examines the process by which Spain has forgotten or covered up the atrocities that were committed. And he makes the most damning accusation possible against Spain’s fascists and their allies: that the deaths they caused – undertaken in the spirit of programmatic and deliberate mass murder – amounted to a “holocaust”......."


Dear Kevin... Socialists and Reds are the same.... Socialists were REDS. (till the year 1979) PSOE sent their delegation to MOSCOW.. to the KOMITERN... in AUGUST, 1935.. no tale as in this forum some people wrote... PSOE has been PENETRATED by the SOVIETS from 1929....................)...........
But that not really relevant-- I am well aware of the Communist party and the inter war years but that doesn't meant that therefore Franco and is proto-Fascist were good guys or that Paul Preston's work is flawed because he doesn't share your views.


Preston is a Liar.... a profesional liar when he says PSOE loved Democracy and liberalism... PSOE was Marxist.. and from 1929... penetrated by the Soviets............

Dear Kevin.. we agree in may others questions but no in this one.... your beloved Preston is only a SOCIALIST (by money, of course, but a socialist............
Any proof of this?

And unlike you I don't view the word 'Socialist' to be some sort of insult or the accusation of such makes a person some how lesser being-- although your attitude does underline one of Prestons assertion about the attitude of the Nationalists.
 
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martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#38
Sorry simply because you talk --as a history professor and book writing historian you will talk at many such things--- at an event its doesn't mean you are on their pay roll.
It is a way to fund him... funny he is invited by PSOE....

e is a professor at a London University and even guest speaks at many other universities including Harvard-- assume that makes them 'reds' as well.
And What? To be in Harvard or in London University don´t make you different in nothing... a Red is a RED... no matter if he is in London or in Phom Phem with Polt Polt....

Bolloten died in 1987....he arrived to Spain in 1936 being communist (according with your beloved socialist Preston).. Bolloten had the most important private archive about Spanish Civil War.. from his death... the archive holds at the Hoover Institute of Stanford University.

His three books are essential to understand the Spanish Civil War:

:The Grand Camouflage: The Communist conspiracy in the Spanish Civil War
The Spanish Revolution

And maybe the best book written about the civil war: The Spanish Civil War: Revolution and Counterrevolution

The Spanish revolution was in many cases more profound than the Russian one, there is no comparison in the history of a case of international cover-up, of the facts, like this one. (Burnett Bolloten)

When Preston and Gibson say Republic was not a totalitarian leftist regiment.. and it was a democracy. They are a gang of liars... Socialist paid by socialism and the International, the KOMITERN....to cover up... It was a Revolution.. a bloody revolution organized to exterminate the Catholicism in Spain.. fortunately crushed by the White Generals...

Preston never never gave a evidence.... he only wrote... based in nothing save in the money paid by socialism.
Preston says 200,000 executted... FALSE.. Where are their names? Their records? Archives? He says 200.000 as he can say 20 or 2 billions.... pure figures without any base.
Prestosn says Frente Popular was a Democracey.. .FALSE
Preston says Frente Popular won the Election.. FALSE
Preston says the White cause. The Counterrevolution was not popular.. FALSE


I CAN SEE you say nothing about the OFFICIAL PSOE DELEGATION in the KOMITERN.. Moscow August 1935... of course... a Socialist as Preston or Gibson.... don´t now how to justify the “liberal” and “democratic” PSOE in the STALIN´S Moscow.... talking about to organize a Popular Front to take the Power...

Franco was not fascist.... not even he was a politican.... saved the Republic in 1934 against the Coup d´Etat organized by PSOE-ERC....and he only joined the Rebellion in 1936 after Preston´s Democratic PSOE.... kidnapped and killed through the Police controlled by PSOE one of the chiefs of Parlamentarian opossition.

Talking about Preston.

He defined to himself as "antifrancoist" and "leftist"... he says to feel admiration for the anarchists and their collectivization program (He can do it in their beloved Scotland...no way here) He said his intellectual father was the MARXIST historian Tuñón de Lara, by the way.... Preston.. his beloved Tuñón de Lara was POW ... captured by the White forces in Cartagena.... oh way.. he was not executed as not executed millions Reds captured by the Winners.... nothing.. in fact, he died in 1997...

Paul Preston is a historian of imprecise methodology. His radical leftism has not brought him closer to the great representatives of British Marxism such as Edward Palmer Thompson, Eric J. Hobsbawm or Christopher Hill.
His historical thought becomes a curious amalgam of vulgar Marxism, methodological individualism, empiricism and, above all, what some Italian historians have pejoratively called "sublime moralism," that is, value judgments at the service of an ideology (Renzo de Felice, Entrevista sobre el fascismo con Michael Leeden. Buenos Aires 1979, page 10).
Preston himself recognizes that he is not objective or pretends to be ... that his books are based on anecdotes ... not in deep analysis. (Teresa Ricart, «Paul Preston», interview in Muy Interesante, April 1st, 1998),
so, his historiographical work is comanded by the pathos (πάθος) about logos (λóγος ) is clear and categorical. His evident animosity for the figure of Francisco Franco extends to the whole of the Spanish right, which tends to identify with authoritarianism, fascism and golpism... for him the White were "monsters" whilst the REDS were "holy men".... (Paul Preston, La guerra civil española. Barcelona, 2006, on page 12; Las derechas españolas en el siglo XX: autoritarismo, fascismo y golpismo. Madrid 1986.).

The antithesis is represented by the Spanish left, to which Preston tries to absolve of any historical criticism. For the British historian, the experience of the Second Spanish Republic is something sacred, untouchable, "the best Democracy in the history of Europe and North America". (Paul Preston, Idealistas bajo las balas. Barcelona 2008, on page 20).

Who can take seriously a guy who says that monstrosity that was the Spanish Republic was the most democratic system in the history of Europe and North America?


And the same happens with socialism, anarchism and communism. It is significant that in the "Prestonian" vocabulary anticommunism is always accompanied by a negative or pejorative word: "ferocious", "bitter" etc etc.

Preston of the great Liar.. the great clown of history at service of PSOE... a lackey!

Regards

 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,344
Spain
#40
Thank you Mr Martin for your answer.But can you give to us the good statistics ? We want to know the truth which certainly must be between the two thésis.
Dear dupuydumazeldan,

My favourite thesis came from Stanley Payne, Bolloten, De la Cierva and Hugh Thomas.
General aspect: Salas Larrazábal.
From military the best sources are the giant works written by Martínez Bande
And primary sources: archives and memories written by people took part in the war.
About terror maybe the books written by Casa de la Vega.

Statistics from archives and Salas Larrazabal.