How much of the Spanish republics in the Spanish Civil War were Communists?

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,498
Spain
#61
The International brigades had no russian soldiers, only some specialists for the instruction of the young soldiers.I have made a conference in 2016 about the nine brigadists of Choisy le Roi killed in Spain.
-5 members of the PCF,workers in the manufactures of Vitry.
-3 anarchists,workers in a printing house.
-1 socialist,craftsman.
I have not the impression that they were "red terrorists".

First.. they were Soviets.. not Russians! they were organized and controlled by Stalin´s socialists... by the Komitern.. not by any "freedom".. but we can see what kind of "freedom" loves Preston.
Second. The Anarchist didn´t fight in International Brigades ... I say again.. a Stalin´s Force in Spain.. Anarchists tried and organized their own "international".. and it was a disaster.

Who told about terrorism.. they were Stalin´s soldiers fought by Stalin on behalf of Stalin.. but some of them were terrorist... of course... I remember the French Marty....André Marty, the terrorist and killer (Le boucher de Albacete).... appointed by Stalin as General Inspector of the International Brigade.. a Psyco killer... the man said the price of a man is 75 centimes....the price of a bullet....(Preston for sure would define as a Pacific democratic man). Other Pycho Killer was Karol Swierczewski, only a insane mind as Preston´s one would say that those gangs of Stalinist in Spain they were "volunteers of Freedom"....)

Regards-
 
May 2017
1,012
France
#62
Andre Marty wasn t a terrorist.In 1917, he participated to a strike in the army,after the disaster of the general Nivelle on the "Chemin des dames" (2d battle of the Aisne) and in 1919 he was put in jails (Maison Centrale de Clairvaux/soldiers jails since Napoleon) because he organized a strike in the navy during the campaign of the Black Sea against the bolcheviks.He was called the "butcher of Albacete" because he applicated the "Espanol Codigo de Justicia Militar" to the desertors who believed that they were in holidays in Spain,and thought that they had the right to leave Spain because they were volunteers...
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,498
Spain
#63
Andre Marty wasn t a terrorist.In 1917, he participated to a strike in the army,after the disaster of the general Nivelle on the "Chemin des dames" (2d battle of the Aisne) and in 1919 he was put in jails (Maison Centrale de Clairvaux/soldiers jails since Napoleon) because he organized a strike in the navy during the campaign of the Black Sea against the bolcheviks.He was called the "butcher of Albacete" because he applicated the "Espanol Codigo de Justicia Militar" to the desertors who believed that they were in holidays in Spain,and thought that they had the right to leave Spain because they were volunteers...
No.. in Albacete he killed each "volunteer of Freedom" wanted to back to their countries althought they had completed the six monts term signatured. He was a terrorist.
 
May 2017
1,012
France
#65
French are not fanatics soldiers like the Japaneses.If Marty would have done mistakes,he would have been eliminated by the PCF,largely representated in the IB.So perhaps errors,but not a discipline anti republican,in no conformity with the valors of the democracy,the constitution,and the rights of men of 1789.
 
May 2011
13,938
Navan, Ireland
#66
It is a way to fund him... funny he is invited by PSOE....
Have you anything other than your own rants to prove that Preston is in the pay of the Communist party of Spain?

He spoke at the Hay Book Festival -- are they part of the Communist party as well?



And What? To be in Harvard or in London University don´t make you different in nothing... a Red is a RED... no matter if he is in London or in Phom Phem with Polt Polt....
He is a respected professor (or was before his retirement) of history at respected institutions and published not only 'popular' history books and lectured at many highly respected places. Whether he does or does not hold the same political views as you that doesn't mean he writes poor history.

Bolloten died in 1987....he arrived to Spain in 1936 being communist (according with your beloved socialist Preston).. Bolloten had the most important private archive about Spanish Civil War.. from his death... the archive holds at the Hoover Institute of Stanford University.......................................
Yes died in 1987 almost 25 years before the work you claimed he had debunked was written, how did he do that from beyond the grave Martin?

When Preston and Gibson say Republic was not a totalitarian leftist regiment.. and it was a democracy. They are a gang of liars... Socialist paid by socialism and the International, the KOMITERN....to cover up... It was a Revolution.. a bloody revolution organized to exterminate the Catholicism in Spain.. fortunately crushed by the White Generals...
Well that's your opinion but other writers-- not simply Preston-- profoundly disagree with your interpretation of events.

Preston never never gave a evidence.... he only wrote... based in nothing save in the money paid by socialism.
Preston says 200,000 executted... FALSE.. Where are their names? Their records? Archives? He says 200.000 as he can say 20 or 2 billions.... pure figures without any base.
Prestosn says Frente Popular was a Democracey.. .FALSE
Preston says Frente Popular won the Election.. FALSE
Preston says the White cause. The Counterrevolution was not popular.. FALSE...........
Have you got a source that Preston's work is poorly researched because he has won many awards

For instance

"The prestigious hispanicist Paul Preston was awarded honorary doctorate by the University of Barcelona on June 14. Preston is professor of International History at the London School of Economics (LSE), where he directs the Cañada Blanch Centre for Contemporary Spanish Studies. Apart from his research, he is known for his critical spirit and defence of freedom. Author of lots of publications, these are the ones that stand out the most: Franco. “Caudillo de España”, The Spanish Holocaust: inquisition and extermination during the civil war and after, or The Spanish Civil war: reaction, revolution, and revenge, Preston’s work focuses on the most debated and relevant topics of the 20th Century Spanish history...."

The University of Barcelona.

I CAN SEE you say nothing about the OFFICIAL PSOE DELEGATION in the KOMITERN.. Moscow August 1935... of course... a Socialist as Preston or Gibson.... don´t now how to justify the “liberal” and “democratic” PSOE in the STALIN´S Moscow.... talking about to organize a Popular Front to take the Power...
Martin you don't reply to everything I post? somewhat hypocritical-- but why respond I never denied that there were communists on the Republican side, that's not a revelation and the fact that you think it is shows that you know a great deal less than you think you do. There were many 'sides' and factions on both sides and one of the tragedy'sof the War is that both sides made people choose between one or other-- often under pain of death -- it was a victory for extremes, both left and right.

But hang on if the Republicans are in the wrong for having Communists on their 'side' what are the Nationalists for having the Fascists?

The Republicans had support form the Soviet Union--only place they could get it-- but where was the Nationalists support Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy!

Franco was not fascist.... not even he was a politican.... saved the Republic in 1934 against the Coup d´Etat organized by PSOE-ERC....and he only joined the Rebellion in 1936 after Preston´s Democratic PSOE.... kidnapped and killed through the Police controlled by PSOE one of the chiefs of Parlamentarian opossition.
Whether Franco was a Fascist or not is open to debate -- for me 'if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck' etc--- doesn't really matter that is whom he was 'running' with.
He did not save the republic in case you didn't notice Spain was a military dictatorship until 1977.
 
May 2011
13,938
Navan, Ireland
#67
Part 2

Talking about Preston.......................................

.......................................Preston of the great Liar.. the great clown of history at service of PSOE... a lackey!

Regards
No he is a respected historian who doesn't share your political views.
Another review-- from a 'good' site-- of Spanish Holcaust

"........Paul Preston is a renowned historian, and is considered one of the world’s leading experts on 20th-century Spanish history. His book on the genocidal actions taken against Spanish civilians between 1936 and 1945 is an important resource that has changed historiography on the period. From the perceived failures of the elected government to the rise of Francisco Franco and his subsequent authoritative takeover of Spain (that lasted 41 years), his book covers these events in painstaking detail. The ensuing, bloody civil war led to the death of hundreds of thousands, and the author carefully detailed every aspect of how the murders enfolded. Repression occurred on both sides,..."

Please note the reviwer echoes my claims that Preston outlines the repression by both sides-- is that likely if he is a 'communist lackey' ?

"........The book, constructed in six parts, begins with a chronological examination of how ‘between 1918 and 1921, a period of bitter social conflict’ (p. 3) set up the events of 1936 and 1945, that saw the murder of thousands of people. Franco, and many others, were Africanistas. These Africanistas were veterans of the Spanish colonial wars in North Africa. Like Franco, some were referred to as Bridegrooms of Death because of their extreme nationalistic belief that they should stop at nothing to free Spain from the degradation caused by modernists and others, even if this meant genocide. Preston attempts to argue that these events were, in part, a response to 20th-century modernity coupled with anti-Semitic, anti-Masonic, anti-Communist, anti-decadency propaganda, and combined with additional propagandist constructs that saw other groups defined as an antagonistic threat, and therefore as an enemy to be exterminated. Few groups were left untouched, from across a broad socio-economic range. Farm-workers were depicted as subhuman, but so were some university professors. Indeed, the Francoists saw modernity as a threat, and those who defended it were put to death in barbaric ways......

.........
One important aspect of the book is its ongoing analysis of crimes against women during this period, a topic seldom discussed in other works. Throughout the narrative, Preston exposes horrific crimes against women and girls. Women had their breasts branded like animals, typically because of the activities of their husbands (such as if he was a writer who critiqued the Francoists, or belonged to another group classified as the enemy such as teachers or unionists) leading them to be damned by association. For example, women did not have to be associated herself with communism, but if her husband or other male relative was, she was constructed as a ‘red’ enemy who needed to be eradicated. Even women who did not marry in civil ceremonies were targeted. Feminists were also a target, and were identified as unnatural and classified as such. The abuses knew no bounds. Pregnant women were abused, raped, shot. Women with children were tortured in freezing prison cells with little to no food, water, medicine or even proper bedding (p. 204). One woman who had just given birth was forced to climb stairs repeatedly, causing life-threatening injuries. The doctor at the jail declined to help her, telling her that ‘the best cure for her was death’ (p. 205). Preston refers specifically to numerous rapes, yet the word rape is not found in the index. Problematic of course, and the entry in the index for women only covers an association, and women prisoners and prisons. This could have been expanded upon in the index, especially because Preston includes throughout the narrative ongoing crimes against women that, as the book details, increased as the state infrastructure disintegrated after the 1936 coup d'état. Mass rapes by Republican perpetrators were commonplace rather than not, with one example of a young girl raped by 50 men (p. 333). Rape, often done right before the women were murdered, was intentional (shockingly defined by the perpetrators not as atrocities but as ‘fun’) (p. 333). Wives were tortured and shot if their husbands could not be found. Enslavement of women and girls occurred, and gang rape was promoted; thus, rape was entirely systematic. These actions all had genocidal consequences; therefore, scholars should begin to consider Preston’s narrative in a new light: that an argument be made that gendercide was indeed committed against thousands of females. Subsequent Franco policies towards women were misogynist, with women experiencing deeply unequal treatment until well after his death in 1975.


In conclusion, Preston’s scholarship rectifies historical falsisms that have overlooked this period of Franco Spain, and appropriately portrays what happened as genocide. Still an ardent enthusiast of the period, the author doggedly and indisputably exposed the criminals of both sides without fail. For this, his scholarship in revealing the criminals is commendable, and his narrative remains highly deserving of praise. The book is incredibly detailed, and is accompanied by over a hundred pages of footnotes, maps, images, and a concise glossary of terms. Numerous primary sources are used throughout the text, many unpublished. Also extremely helpful to the non-Spanish experts is the use of maps as a point of reference for the numerous cities and towns painstakingly detailed as centres of crimes against humanity. For those unfamiliar with the period, Sebastian Balfour’s Deadly Embrace: Morocco and the Road to the Spanish Civil War (3) is a good starting point before approaching Preston’s opus.

The Spanish Holocaust is absolutely, and most highly, recommended to scholars interested in genocide, the history of Spain, the Spanish Civil War, and the regime of Franco....."

The Spanish Holocaust: Inquisition and Extermination in Twentieth-Century Spain | Reviews in History
 
May 2011
13,938
Navan, Ireland
#68
The International brigades had no russian soldiers, only some specialists for the instruction of the young soldiers.I have made a conference in 2016 about the nine brigadists of Choisy le Roi killed in Spain.
-5 members of the PCF,workers in the manufactures of Vitry.
-3 anarchists,workers in a printing house.
-1 socialist,craftsman.
I have not the impression that they were "red terrorists".
No they were not Terrorists but idealists -- and yes many were very naïve and had a naïve ( with hindsight) view of Soviet Russia and Stalin-- but they were also fighting against fascism, some were soldiers many were not.

Lovely little book picked up in Haye on Wye (so worth a visit for a book lover)



a short biography of some of those who joined the International Brigades and their many reasons -- one for instance was as much influenced by the Plymouth brethren as she was the communist party.
 
May 2017
1,012
France
#69
Mr Martin,you speak about Calvo Sotelo.But everybody knows that he was responsive of the assassinations of the captain of ingeneers Faraudo and of the lieutnant of the "Guardia de Asalto" Castillo.This attitude has more connexions with the mafia s traditions than with a parliamentary comportment.Calvo Sotelo was the spanish Goerhing.
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,498
Spain
#70
ave you anything other than your own rants to prove that Preston is in the pay of the Communist party of Spain?
I´ve never said paid by PCE.. I said a RED paid by PSOE...they are different parties.

He is a respected professor
Maybe for you..not for me...of course, for leftist too.

Yes died in 1987 almost 25 years before the work you claimed he had debunked was written, how did he do that from beyond the grave Martin?
He died in 1987 with the bes private archive in the world about SCW... and yes his book debunked the Preston´s play.... in fact, Preston Civil War book is from 1986.

The University of Barcelona.
Please.. Don´t make me to speak about the Universiy of Barcelona... please.

But hang on if the Republicans are in the wrong for having Communists on their 'side' what are the Nationalists for having the Fascists?
No, you don´t understand what I say... I am not saying they were wrong for Communist... PCE was moderate comparating to PSOEand not responsible of the War... it was PSOE.. and the Popular Front the main responsables... PSOE and their crimes from 1931. During the War, the middle class lived in Red Zone... prefered PCE because they were moderate in comparation to PSOE.

By other side during the War... Soviets controlled the Republic... everything.. PSOE-PCE.. they elimated POUM.. they controlled the Republican State... Nor German nor Italian nor nobody controlled never the National Spain. Franco was not submitted to Hitler or Mussolini as Republic was submited to Stalin.

Franco was not a Fascist.. he never was member of any party and he never applied a Fascist Politic...

The only Spanish holocaust was the extermination policy carried out by the Republic against Catholicism ... that was a Holocaust.

No they were not Terrorists but idealists -- and yes many were very naïve and had a naïve ( with hindsight) view of Soviet Russia and Stalin-- but they were also fighting against fascism, some were soldiers many were not.
Idealist or not... they were Stalinist fighting by Stalin against the Catholiscim and the Monarchy. Also in the Wafffen SS and in the NKVD.. we can find many idealist.. and what?a

In the White Armies, they were many idealist fighting by Jesuchrist, Spain, and the King. And fighting Revolution. Yes, many British REDS fought by the Red Dictatorship.. and yes, they were the Stalin´s heroes.. I prefer other British heroes as Peter Kemp or Rupert Bellville or Gordon Selfridge.. a Billonaire´´s son enlisted in Burgos full of enthusiasm to stop the "damned reds".

Peter Kemp.. a really volunteer of the Freedom against Reds