I am an Iranian Azeri trying to figure out who my people were

Mar 2016
688
Antalya
#41
That crossed my mind, too. Damavand? What was his previous name? Karvir something?
If one thing hanging in forums thought me, it's some people can create fake accounts and continue waging their online crusade. It is especially true for topics involving politics. I am not sure who they truly are but bold, incoherent and outright weird posts coming from fresh accounts. Rings my alarm bells.
 

Tulun

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
3,660
Western Eurasia
#42
Are there any research done about when the Turks started to migrate to and settle in Iran? Do we know if there were any Turks in Iran during Arab conquest of Persia?.
From what I have read, The first Turkic Empire in Iran were created from within, by local Iranian Turks. With the exception of Timmy (Seljuks maybe?) and the later Ottoman wars. Turks didn't invade Iran, they were already there.

Azar means fire in Persian. So Azari means "fire people" Zoroastrianism is known as "the fire religion" Some people suggest that Zoroastrianism was the state religion during The Achaemenid Empire. If that is true then the Azeris must have inhabited Iran since ancient times.

The more I learn about this, the more confused I get. I have come to the point where I am not even sure if Azeris are Turk
isn't it a folk etymology? i thought the geographic name Azerbaijan derives from a pesonal name, the name of the governor Atropates from the antiquity, and calling the Turkish people there 'Azeri' is quite recent, 20th century invetnion maybe? (Btw i also find it silly to speak about "biologically" Turkish, Persian etc, they are biologically homo sapiens sapiens, the rest is cultural and political identity that is continously the subject of change and evolution...)
 
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#43
Are there any research done about when the Turks started to migrate to and settle in Iran? Do we know if there were any Turks in Iran during Arab conquest of Persia?.
From what I have read, The first Turkic Empire in Iran were created from within, by local Iranian Turks. With the exception of Timmy (Seljuks maybe?) and the later Ottoman wars. Turks didn't invade Iran, they were already there.

Azar means fire in Persian. So Azari means "fire people" Zoroastrianism is known as "the fire religion" Some people suggest that Zoroastrianism was the state religion during The Achaemenid Empire. If that is true then the Azeris must have inhabited Iran since ancient times.

The more I learn about this, the more confused I get. I have come to the point where I am not even sure if Azeris are Turk
The Turks originate from Mongolia and Siberia, they are not native to the greater iran region. The mongols/mongolians themselves are turkish. The first documented mention of turkish peoples was during the Chinese Han Dynasty.

Turks have been migrating west since late antiquity, the huns being an example. But turks didnt migrate en mass until the 6th-10th centuries ad. After that they began mixing and interbreeding with the local populations.

The First Turkic Khanate that you mention was founded around 550ad by Goturks after migrating into the region, they were not indigenous.

Zoroastrianism is an Iranian religion, its not asian/turkish. It was codified in Old Avestan, an iranian and indo-european language. The founder, Zarathustra, was likely from what is now Afghanistan. The coincidences in language you mention are because the turks were persianized and adopted a lot of persian language and customs once they moved into iran.
 
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Dec 2015
147
Earth
#45
If one thing hanging in forums thought me, it's some people can create fake accounts and continue waging their online crusade. It is especially true for topics involving politics. I am not sure who they truly are but bold, incoherent and outright weird posts coming from fresh accounts. Rings my alarm bells.
This is definitly not me first experience with people creating fake accounts solely to push their obvious agenda. Which why i just outright accused him off being a troll, no need to talk around the obvious. Whenever people ask to much unneccesary questions its generally a good indication that he uses those questions to feint neutrality and redirect the conversation into the area/subject of his choosing, after which he ofcourse comes to the conclusion that contradicts the answer that pretty much everything everybody else told.
 
Jul 2017
16
Norway
#46
To the OP: Which would you rather: live in Tehrangeles, LA or Little Istanbul, Berlin? This choice decides your nationality.
If I was wealthy, I would chose LA.

The Turks originate from Mongolia and Siberia, they are not native to the greater iran region. The mongols/mongolians themselves are turkish. The first documented mention of turkish peoples was during the Chinese Han Dynasty.

Turks have been migrating west since late antiquity, the huns being an example. But turks didnt migrate en mass until the 6th-10th centuries ad. After that they began mixing and interbreeding with the local populations.

The First Turkic Khanate that you mention was founded around 550ad by Goturks after migrating into the region, they were not indigenous.

Zoroastrianism is an Iranian religion, its not asian/turkish. It was codified in Old Avestan, an iranian and indo-european language. The founder, Zarathustra, was likely from what is now Afghanistan. The coincidences in language you mention are because the turks were persianized and adopted a lot of persian language and customs once they moved into iran.
I know that biologically, we are all humans and it is meaningless to try to label us as ethnic Azeri, Persian, Turk, British or whatever. It all comes down to culture.

But I am interested in History. Thats why Im curious. I want to know when this turkification started. And what culture there was before that time. If we look at northwestern Iran. That region is called Azerbaijan. Azeris used to have a very nomadic lifestyle. And I believe many of them still live a nomadic lifestyle.

Today we speak Azeri. But when and why did these people start to speak Azeri? Is it possible that it was an unpopulated area. And while some of these turkic nomads migrated to that part and continued to live as nomads. Some of them settled and founded towns and cities there? But again. If the place was unpopulated. Why do we not look like Turks from Central Asia? We must have mixed with he locals. Do you think Irans Azeri population is a part of the Turko-Mongol migration?

Its such a shame that not everyone has a family tree.

All you ****s calling me a troll. Saying I am someone from the forum with a fake account etc. Don't hijack this thread. **** off, take your conspiracy somewhere else.
 
Jul 2018
1
Esfahan
#48
The Turkish population of Southern Azerbaijan (Henry Field, 1939)

Turki, who form the entire population of Garmarud and Khalkhal in Azerbaijan, Khamseh, and of Lower Tarum, together with other sections of Kazvin province roughly west of a line drawn from Manjil to Siadehan and northwest of the Siadehan-Hamadan road. Southeast of this road and southwest of a line from Siadehan to Robat Karim, including Kharaqan, there is an admixture of Farsi, but Turki predominates. The town of Save is, however, wholly Farsi, although villages within a few miles of it are Turki. About one-third of the population of Kazvin and a smaller part of the population of Tehran are Turki. In the strip between the base of the Elburz and a line drawn from Siadehan to Robat Karim, i.e. intermediate between the Farsi and Turki areas, and in Veramin and Khar southeast of Tehran, Turkis are found mixed with Farsis in many villages. The Farsis, the original inhabitants, are more numerous. The Turki element is usually descended from tribes which have come and settled among them.
The Turki peoples are the descendants of hordes from Central Asia, particularly of the Ghuzz tribes, who invaded Iran during the Seljuk period in the eleventh and twelfth centuries. The Seljuks were followed by the Mongols and the rule of the Mongol Il Khans of Iran, who had their capitals at Maragheh, Tabriz, and Sultaniyeh1 near Zanjan.
According to a strong local tradition the ancestors of the Khalej and Baiat Turks in the Saveh district came to these regions with the armies of the Mongol conqueror Tamerlane (Timur) at the end of the fourteenth century.
Two theories, however, exist as to the origin of the present Turki population: that they are descended from these Turks and Mongols; and that they are the offspring of the original inhabitants on whom the invaders imposed their language.
Apart from the dissimilarity in language the great difference in mental and physical characteristics between Turkis and Farsis suggests that there must at least be a considerable admixture of different blood in the former. These regions were devastated and depopulated by the invasions and probably the surviving remnants of the original population intermarried and were absorbed with their conquerors.
Turki landowners and peasantry alike are of good physique, with broader faces and heavier build than the Farsi.
Turki is the only language of the northern Turki districts and no Farsi spoken or understood except by the upper class and a small proportion of the population of Zenjan. Farther south, where the population becomes mixed, some Farsi is also understood, but it is more usual to find a Farsi with a knowledge of Turki than vice versa. The Turki of these parts differs considerably from Ottoman Turkish, and there is also some variation between the Turki of Azerbaijan and the Turki of the districts around Saveh.

1 At Sultaniyeh are ruins of the mausoleum of Khudabanda, the Il Khan, who founded this city in A.D. 1305.


Henry Field, Contributions to the Anthropology of Iran // Anthropological Series of the Field Museum of Natural History. Vol. 29. ― Chicago: Field Museum Press, 1939, pp. 165―166.


Azerbaijan ? History and Ethnography: The Turkish population of Southern Azerbaijan (Henry Field, 1939)
 
Dec 2017
167
America
#49
Iranian Azerbaijanis are mostly native West Asian people that have lived in the area for millennia. As far as I know, the oldest recorded people in modern day Iranian Azerbaijan are the Manneans. Later came the Iranics (Medians) and they were the people that named Azerbaijan what it is called today. They didn't do any sort of population displacement, but mainly imposed their language and culture. After that, came the Oghuz Turks from western Kazakhstan, and they're the ones that mostly live in Azerbaijan today. They likely similar to the Iranics didn't cause a population displacement. The Talysh are Median-remnants that survived the Turkification of the region (Iranian Azerbaijan).