I might be a descendent of King Arthur?

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,692
Sydney
" unless you can prove when Badon was fought, where it was fought and who was involved, and then can refine our current dating methodologies for archaeological data, you can't demonstrate that there is any link between the two "

is it possible that the Roman economic form of production in Britain , based on large villa worked by slaves and servants collapsed
beside the owners and a few intermediaries , they didn't have a large population to mobilize
a defeat would whip out their ranks leading to the subsequent rapid destruction of the villa system , trade network and city life

the Saxons were not simply newcomers , they totally changed the nature of land occupation to a return to scattered villages
the end of agribusiness and a reversion to subsistence farming
it would have been more amicable to their old continental society and their mindset
 

Peter Graham

Ad Honorem
Jan 2014
2,694
Westmorland
is it possible that the Roman economic form of production in Britain , based on large villa worked by slaves and servants collapsed
It definitely did collapse, although we shouldn't underestimate the role of peasant labourers - it wasn't all slaves and servants.

beside the owners and a few intermediaries , they didn't have a large population to mobilize
Economic collapse doesn't necessarily involve demographic collapse. The people would still have been there, even if the population declined over time

a defeat would whip out their ranks leading to the subsequent rapid destruction of the villa system , trade network and city life
It is likely that the economy collapsed long before the middle part of the fifth century.
 
Nov 2008
1,438
England
Contemporaneous naming schemes do exist in real history. Case in point the name of "Bob," "Robert," "Bobby", and the like were quite uncommon below the Mason-Dixon Line before 1865, but suddenly after 1865 - there is a recorded marked increase of the number of children named "Bob," "Robert," and "Bobby". So we must ask - "What kind of person that lived in 1865, that could inspire people below the Mason Dixon Line to name their children after him?"
This is interesting. Æthelflaed, Lady of the Mercians, daughter of King Alfred, was held in affection and high regard by her Mercian subjects, and this is shown in the popularity of her name amongst the nobility after her death in the year 918.

Source: Mercia and the making of England by Ian W. Walker
 

sparky

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
5,692
Sydney
the existence of formal "family" name is a late development
usually the patronymic was the name of the father sometime his father too
this survived quite late in northern Europe and for the non nobles ...I.E. Johnson
noble used the name of the residence of their branch
nicknames were employed in casual conversation
 

AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,626
Italy, Lago Maggiore
unless I'm mistaken , one of the reasons ,Claudius invaded Britain was to stop British druids stirring trouble in Gaul
does anyone else have read this ?
Well, there was also this political reason which persuaded Claudius to do what Augustus planned already years before [also Caligola spent some thoughts about]. Anyway Romans had already "clients" in the South of Great Britain [the consequences of the expeditions leaded by Caesar were important and durable]. Caesar saw the British lands as an obvious target for the expansion of the Roman domains, just not to leave a safe port, to the gauls and overall sources of military aids [De Bello Gallico, IV 20, Caesar noted that the gauls got reinforcements from the Northern isle]. He obtain something, a partial result, I would say, making Southern Great Britain enter the Roman sphere of influence. But Romans will wait about 90 years before of the real invasion. They consolidated their presence in Gaul first and then, once they had a solid background they begun to plan the conquest. When Caesar made his attempts in Normandy there wasn't a stable Roman territorial organization [with streets and ports], suitable and able to sustain such an effort in the long term.

Among other things Caesar didn't obtain great information about Great Britain by the Gaul traders: they knew only some ports and some sectors of the Southern coast, since they avoided to travel towards the inland. So that Caesar needed to "visit" that land to know more about the enemies.
 

kazeuma

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
2,423
It definitely did collapse, although we shouldn't underestimate the role of peasant labourers - it wasn't all slaves and servants.



Economic collapse doesn't necessarily involve demographic collapse. The people would still have been there, even if the population declined over time



It is likely that the economy collapsed long before the middle part of the fifth century.
The Justinian Plague helped a lot in the reduction of population - - Maelgwn was said to have died of the "Yellow Plague of Rhos" around 547. Maelgwn was cited as one of the latter kings lambasted by Gildas for his murder, sodomy, incest, the "dragon of the Isles" out of the Book of Revelations.

If one counts backwards say subtracting 1 from 547 -> 546, then subtracting 1 from 546, etc until you get 10 to 20+ years back you get one of the traditional dates for the 2nd Battle of Badon Hill (538 AD), which some ascribe as a victory for Arthur.

And if you go further back to 25 December Year 479 - Chinese astronomical records show that a comet was seen originating from "Artcutus", the Brightest star in Ursa Major (the Great Bear. Note the "URSA" -> URSA could become if translated wrong as UTHUR or Arthur). The same comet was recorded to have been seen during the time of Napoleon, but afterwards according to NASA projections the comet was thrown outside of the solar system never to return.

Some have suggested that Arthur was born 25 December Year 479 - under this celestial event, which would be one of the reasons why Gildas would not wish to write of him - being a religious zealot in the time of plague anyone associated with comets meant Satan.

Now addressing the heraldry in my previous post. I did not say that Mordred carried it - I said it was probably authentic to the period of Arthur. But I did say that it was most likely something that you could see in post Roman Britannia. Roman eagles are common across the remains of the Roman Empire - for example you could say the Black Eagle of Germany is a great-grandchild of a Roman eagle.


if pic does not load - link here - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Coat_of_arms_of_Germany.svg/1200px-Coat_of_arms_of_Germany.svg.png

I will use a modern day example - when the US army marched into city xxxx in Afghanistan, they citizens resisted but eventually accepted the new leadership. Yet when the US army was ordered to leave xxxx, within 72 hours to a week there was some idiot running around claiming he was in charge - and he was even in a Uniform given to him by the US army.

It is the same of post Roman Britannia - the Roman legions are gone and not coming back. Some idiot is going to stand up and say "I am in charge." And if said idiot stands around saying "I am charge" defeats a small military force, expect him to be calling himself king or someone else call him king.

Once Arthur is dead and the ravages of the plague would have easily depopulated Britannia - leaving it quite prime for the new Saxon landowners and leadership.
 

stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,758
Las Vegas, NV USA
I've decided to start a conspiracy theory based on your story but I will not use your name although you put it out there. In my CT you have been secretly verified to be the direct descendent of King Arthur, but he was not king of England. England as such did not exist in the early 6th century. Moreover King Arthur was Welsh and fighting the Anglo Saxon invaders in what is now the west of England. He won a major battle ending for a time the Anglo Saxon advance. Based on this you are suing to have your dynasty reinstated so you can assume the throne of England and Wales (not the UK) following the passing of the current Queen. Your title will be King of Britton, the restored Celtic kingdom. No one will be displaced but everyone will have to speak Welsh within five years. Scotland can choose to join if they wish.
 
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kazeuma

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
2,423
I've decided to start a conspiracy theory based on your story but I will not use your name although you put it out there. In my CT you have been secretly verified to be the direct descendent of King Arthur, but he was not king of England. England as such did not exist in the early 6th century. Moreover King Arthur was Welsh and fighting the Anglo Saxon invaders in what is now the west of England. He won a major battle ending for a time the Anglo Saxon advance. Based on this you are suing to have your dynasty reinstated so you can assume the throne of England and Wales (not the UK) following the passing of the current Queen. Your title will be King of Britton, the restored Celtic kingdom. No one will be displaced but everyone will have to speak Welsh within five years. Scotland can choose to join if they wish.
Then there is a problem to the claims to a restored Celtic Kingdom...

My primer on how to become King of Britain:

1. Linage.

Henry the Seventh might have a better claim, he also claimed descent from Arthur in the Lleiaf-Owain Commission, ""Cole Godebog Pedigree", and the "Aedd Mawr Pedigree". Henry the Seventh is an ancestor of the current Queen.

2. Ownership of the Crown Jewels

Currently owned by Elizabeth, Charles, and his children. Getting them will be difficult -> Thomas Blood had a hard time of it.

3. An army

The same way Napoleon became Emperor. Invading Britain is going to be a problem - their navy will prevent it.

Before you say Operation Sea-Lion, Sea-Lion would have been a military disaster, all the British navy would have to do is wait outside the British Waters, sail in, and cut the supply lines across the Channel. Then watch the invading forces starve, surrender, and die. However, it might delay the Normandy Invasion by 6 months to 2 years, leading to a complete Soviet control of Germany (no divided Germany, the Iron curtain will be at the French-German Border).

4. a priest of legitimate authority to crown you.

Charlemagne's father was made king this way by writing a letter to the Pope.

5.


A watery tart with a magic sword. If link fails - pic here - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nsv1x_6c-IU/UG1EA14mntI/AAAAAAAAOh4/I4NZbCYLW6M/s1600/Оригинал+-+Bob+Peak+-+Movie+Poster+-+Excalibur.+1981.jpg
 
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stevev

Ad Honorem
Apr 2017
3,758
Las Vegas, NV USA
Then there is a problem to the claims to a restored Celtic Kingdom....






This CT is a secret lawsuit, not a war plan. Everything is done according to the law. The undeniable truth of the claim cannot be thwarted. All must submit .

Note also that I used two "t"s in Britton. If Scotland joins they can only have the one "t."
 
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AlpinLuke

Forum Staff
Oct 2011
27,626
Italy, Lago Maggiore
This CT is a secret lawsuit, not a war plan. Everything is done according to the law. The undeniable truth of the claim cannot be thwarted. All must submit .

Note also that I used two "t"s in Britton. If Scotland joins they can only have the one "t."
Ok, the new king would need a magic sword and the Grail to add a bit of legend and myth to his august Royal Person.

Now, about the Grail, he can come to Italy and negotiate the rent of the Cup of the Kings of Italy [even Napoleon used it when he became King of Italy]. It's a Roman blue glass cup from early Christian era called "Sapphire Cup". Theodelinda, a Lombard Queen, used it exactly like the Grail in the Arthurian cycle [in late 6th century CE]. In the Renaissance they added to the Cup a structure which made it a remarkable goblet, suitable to be the Grail of the new King Arthur [Arthur II the Greatest].


This is his Grail [the Roman cup from 1st century is the blue glass cup on the top, the rest comes from the period of the Renaissance].
grail.jpg

Then, about a magic sword, he has to collect it from a little loch [lake] in Great Britain. And I know the place [I've been there]:

in Scotland at Tyndrum, among the Western Highlands. In the nearby [I saw it] there is a small lake where King Bruce threw his sword. It's said the sword was big and powerful and the context is perfect. It's the Loch of the Lost Sword.
There is a stone with engraved the depiction of the sword. And actually with that sword he could claim also the Throne of Scotland!
sword.jpg

About who could crown him ... the People. He could give a Constitution to the Britons and he could get the Crown by popular acclamation.
 
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