If France decides to fight on in 1940, how much can it evacuate to Algeria?

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,431
SoCal
If France decides to fight on in 1940 (for instance, if the U.S. is already in the war at that point in time but--for whatever reason--France still ends up falling), how much people, industry, et cetera can it relocate/evacuate to Algeria (and perhaps other parts of French North Africa, such as Tunisia and Morocco)?

Also, what effect would this have on World War II?

In addition to this, would France be less willing to give up Algeria in the post-World War II decades in this scenario? Or would this not have made any difference in regards to this?

Any thoughts on all of this?
 

Lord Fairfax

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
3,426
Changing trains at Terrapin Station...
If France decides to fight on in 1940 (for instance, if the U.S. is already in the war at that point in time but--for whatever reason--France still ends up falling), how much people, industry, et cetera can it relocate/evacuate to Algeria (and perhaps other parts of French North Africa, such as Tunisia and Morocco)?

Also, what effect would this have on World War II?

In addition to this, would France be less willing to give up Algeria in the post-World War II decades in this scenario? Or would this not have made any difference in regards to this?

Any thoughts on all of this?
France had a fairly strong naval presence in the Med, so they'd have a decent chance to evacuate the bulk of their troops, aircraft & ships beyond Axis reach.
Heavy weapons, tanks, artllery and Industry would mostly be written off, but given that the British Empire produced more tanks and artillery than the Axis in 1941, and more aircraft than all 3 Axis powers combined, there would be sufficient British Empire production to equip French forces.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
22,431
SoCal
France had a fairly strong naval presence in the Med, so they'd have a decent chance to evacuate the bulk of their troops, aircraft & ships beyond Axis reach.
Can French North Africa sustain this massive influx of people and military equipment, though?

Heavy weapons, tanks, artllery and Industry would mostly be written off, but given that the British Empire produced more tanks and artillery than the Axis in 1941, and more aircraft than all 3 Axis powers combined, there would be sufficient British Empire production to equip French forces.
OK.

Also, would there have actually been an Operation Barbarossa in this scenario? After all, if France fights on in 1940, this would have probably meant that the U.S. is already in the war.

In addition to this, what about the possibility of evacuating civilians from southern France en masse to French North Africa so that they could help with the French war effort?
 

Ancientgeezer

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
8,898
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
The Italians would be attacking French North Africa from Libya, supported by an earlier engaged Afrika Corps.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,676
The Italians would be attacking French North Africa from Libya, supported by an earlier engaged Afrika Corps.
Not actually possible. The Italian were flat out supporting their current forces in North Africa. It was only the enormous losses during operation compass that created spare capacity with which to support the Africa corps.

It would the the Italians who would be attacked on two fronts. The French fleet would mean the Italian fleet would struggle to supply Libya at all.
 

Ancientgeezer

Ad Honorem
Nov 2011
8,898
The Dustbin, formerly, Garden of England
Not actually possible. The Italian were flat out supporting their current forces in North Africa. It was only the enormous losses during operation compass that created spare capacity with which to support the Africa corps.

It would the the Italians who would be attacked on two fronts. The French fleet would mean the Italian fleet would struggle to supply Libya at all.
The Italians in OTL did not attack Egypt until September 1940. Compass was in December as a riposte to the Italian invasion. The 5th Army under General Italo Gariboldi was in Tripolitania on the Tunisian border until the French capitulation. They would not have moved had the French remained a belligerent. With Tunisia as a prize--perhaps the Italians would have deferred attacking Greece in 1941
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,676
They could get a a fair few aircraft, maybe a couple hundred thousand men, most of which would wind out of North Africa while they trained and formed into real units equipment etc , a few thousand government workers and that would be about it . The Navy could redeploy easily and would make a huge difference to the balance of forces in the Med.

French troops from Syria could join the western Desert force.

Malta would be a much easier to supply put aircraft into the Tunisia.

The Italian supply situation in North Africa would be much worse.
 

Lord Fairfax

Ad Honorem
Jan 2015
3,426
Changing trains at Terrapin Station...
Can French North Africa sustain this massive influx of people and military equipment, though?
Probably not, so French forces would also need to be based in places like the Levant or Dakar to spread around the footprint.

Also, would there have actually been an Operation Barbarossa in this scenario?
Yes, likely no change, the participation of France doesn't change Hitler's Eastern ambitions.
The Axis are facing an Allied coalition of Britain, Commonwealth, Dutch, Greeks, Free French etc. Adding the rest of France is a boost to Allied forces (especially naval), but not a huge increase, as French colonial and evacuated troops will still need material supplied.


After all, if France fights on in 1940, this would have probably meant that the U.S. is already in the war.
Why? :confused:
The US didn't enter when France or Britain was attacked in 1940, and are very unlikely to become a belligerent in 1940.
 
Jun 2017
2,976
Connecticut
If France decides to fight on in 1940 (for instance, if the U.S. is already in the war at that point in time but--for whatever reason--France still ends up falling), how much people, industry, et cetera can it relocate/evacuate to Algeria (and perhaps other parts of French North Africa, such as Tunisia and Morocco)?

Also, what effect would this have on World War II?

In addition to this, would France be less willing to give up Algeria in the post-World War II decades in this scenario? Or would this not have made any difference in regards to this?

Any thoughts on all of this?
They'd be pretty successful. The Italians would be able to try and stop them but the UK and their own navy should be enough to protect them. This is also vital to the North African front(for the Italians since the Germans wouldn't have gotten involved) since Operation Torch was basically taking back Algeria and that was the death kneel of that as a competitive front.