If Hitler hadnt invaded the USSR would Stalin have invaded him?

Jul 2016
9,304
USA
#32
It would have also been great for the Soviets had the Anglo-French and Germans bled each other dry while they themselves would have sat on the sidelines--sort of how it was great for Britain and the US to see the Germans and Soviets bleed each other dry in real life.
That is speculation and has no bearing on why an alliance didn't happen. Simply put, in 1938 both the UK and France were militarily weak and did not want to go to war against Germany.
 
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Jul 2016
9,304
USA
#33
Wasn't there a fear among the Anglo-French that if they will ally with the Soviets and the Soviets are going to use this alliance as an opportunity to occupy additional territory, then the Soviets are going to refuse to leave this territory afterwards? In other words, if the Soviets will liberate Poland from the Nazis, then they will refuse to leave Poland after the end of the war--which is indeed what happened in real life.

Britain and France might have been paranoid due to their memories of the Soviets attempting to export their revolution in 1919-1921. They successfully exported their revolution to Ukraine and the Caucasus and unsuccessfully tried to export their revolution to Finland, Poland, and the Baltic countries. This was only two decades before 1939--well within living memory.
Don't overthink this. Here is how it went down:

The USSR, UK, and French Republic all sent representatives to a talk about an alliance. Only the USSR was actually serious about the discussion. So it went nowhere and ended with nothing signed (the UK and France didn't even send anyone capable of making a decision). With that option, war, not in the cards at the moment, the USSR went a safer route. Peace.

Again. I HATE the USSR. But it was a good decision. If potential allies are too weak and indecisive, then they aren't good potential allies.
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,714
Stockport Cheshire UK
#34
Now I despise the Soviet Union and Stalin in particular. But even in their defense if that meeting happened and the info about it is true, then USSR didn't exactly have many choices. They were in no position to fight Germany alone, it would take years to rebuild the Red Army, so if war is impossible, make a deal that at least buys some time to mobilize and prep.
The Soviet Union will not have to fight Germany if Poland is not occupied by Germany. The British and French were not so much hoping for an alliance to destroy Hitler, but rather an alliance that prevented further aggression from him.
The thing to remember about the position of the British and French is not only did they not trust the Soviets, the nation's they were hoping to protect from German aggression didn't either. The Poles under no account would have allowed Soviet troops onto their territory as part of any alliance.
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,701
SoCal
#35
The Soviet Union will not have to fight Germany if Poland is not occupied by Germany. The British and French were no so much hoping for an alliance to destroy Hitler, but rather an alliance that prevented further aggression from him.
The thing to remember about the position of the British and French is not only did they not trust the Soviets, the nation's they were hoping to protect from German aggression didn't either. The Poles under no account would have allowed Soviet troops onto their territory as part of any alliance.
Good points, but did the Soviets actually have enough faith in the idea that an Anglo-Franco-Soviet alliance would deter Hitler from launching any wars?
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
18,701
SoCal
#37
They also couldn't offer them a big fat juicy bribe, the territory lost in 1920.
Ironically, the Soviet Union's territorial acquisitions in 1939 might have helped pave the way for its demise since Galicia and Volhynia were full of Ukrainian nationalists. Also, interestingly enough, it would have been much easier for Putin to regather much of the former Soviet Union had Ukraine not had Galicia and Volhynia since these territories' inclusion into Ukraine ensured that it would be much harder for pro-Russian forces to form a majority in Ukraine.
 
Jul 2016
9,304
USA
#38
They also couldn't offer them a big fat juicy bribe, the territory lost in 1920.
If you're hungry, what do you want more? A cheeseburger with fries on the side? Or no food at all? Not a hard choice.

Before even getting offered any territory and concessions by the Germans, Molotov was already willing to treat with them. Why were the Soviet Union willing? Because the last attempt to go a different route completely collapsed. It never really started. Because the British and French were not serious about taking on the Germans. The Soviet Union was.
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,714
Stockport Cheshire UK
#39
The info I read about the subject was the British and French sent personnel with no power to make any decision, who were extremely pessimistic and admitted to not having the power or desire to preemptively attack Germany.
The whole objective of the British and French and any alliance with the SU was to avoid a war not start one.
 
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