If Hitler will get overthrown in 1943 or 1944, how much additional bleeding are the Germans going to be able to inflict upon the Allies?

Jul 2017
292
Srpska
#21
I was thinking of having the Germans adopt a defense-in-depth strategy after Hitler's overthrow in this scenario and aggressively and quickly build as many defensive lines as possible on all fronts. Think of the 1917 Hindenburg Line or the defense-in-depth at Kursk, but on a much, much larger scale. Anyway, how successful do you think that such a German strategy is actually going to be and just how much bloodier are the final year or two of World War II going to be for the Allies in this scenario?
It would not work. The tide turned after 1942 at the eastern front. Germans could no longer hold the Soviets. If they could they would had done so.
The best Germany could had done was to sue for peace in mid 1943. At that point it was clear things were going south. Concentrate large troops, fake commitment to long war, sue for peace, and try to give and get with the Soviets. Tough to do after they already broke an agreement in 1941, but nonetheless at that point in mid 1943 was the last chance to gain something reasonably through negotiations.
Which is probably why military tried to dethrone him, to get fresh leadership for negotiations. Good thinking but didn't work.
 
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redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,782
Stockport Cheshire UK
#22
Hitler was still highly popular with the German people in 1943 if he was overthrown you are probably looking at serious disruption to the German war effort due to the internal struggle you will see taking place between the Nazis and SS on one side and elements of the army on the other.
 
Likes: Futurist

redcoat

Ad Honorem
Nov 2010
7,782
Stockport Cheshire UK
#24
It would not work. The tide turned after 1942 at the eastern front. Germans could no longer hold the Soviets. If they could they would had done so.
The best Germany could had done was to sue for peace in mid 1943. At that point it was clear things were going south. Concentrate large troops, fake commitment to long war, sue for peace, and try to give and get with the Soviets. Tough to do after they already broke an agreement in 1941, but nonetheless at that point in mid 1943 was the last chance to gain something reasonably through negotiations.
No, it was already too late.
The Allies were aware the tide had turned and they were in no mood to give the German’s any reward for their aggression.
 
Mar 2019
1,599
Kansas
#25
Hitler was still highly popular with the German people in 1943 if he was overthrown you are probably looking at serious disruption to the German war effort due to the internal struggle you will see taking place between the Nazis and SS on one side and elements of the army on the other.
Well the actual popularity of the man is hard to gauge. When you can suffer a prison term for just tell jokes about him, people will tend to keep their opinions to themselves. I know for instance in Berlin, he never had anything close to majority popularity.
 
Jul 2016
9,676
USA
#26
Hitler was still highly popular with the German people in 1943 if he was overthrown you are probably looking at serious disruption to the German war effort due to the internal struggle you will see taking place between the Nazis and SS on one side and elements of the army on the other.
He was still popular in mid 1944. The servicemen of the Wehrmacht were furious over the 20 July Plot, as were many of the senior officers too. However they felt about the war and Hitler, trying to launch a coup in the middle of a war just because it was going badly was seen as a very dishonorable act.
 
Jul 2016
9,676
USA
#27
Well the actual popularity of the man is hard to gauge. When you can suffer a prison term for just tell jokes about him, people will tend to keep their opinions to themselves. I know for instance in Berlin, he never had anything close to majority popularity.
Berlin is Berlin. It didn't represent Germany as a whole.
 
Jul 2016
9,676
USA
#29
That is why Germany would have to give up a significant area of land in the East for any of this to work. The more Germany can compress its front the less demand there is on what limited supplies of oil they have.
If they compress to the German borders they have no oil, besides very limited coal oil. Further, they lose Romania, because there was no way Romania would stay allied with Germany if it retreated to its pre-war border, and there was no way Romania's Antonescu wasn't going to get overthrown if Germany retreated back and made giant concessions. At the very least, they try to be neutral. But since Romania helped invade the Soviet Union, provided numerous armies, they were active combatants in a war of annihilation against the USSR, and thus were dead meat afterwards when it came down to Stalin retribution time.

Now tell me how Germany does anything anywhere else without Romanian oil? Look at the nightmare that happened post Aug '44 when they lost the oilfields. If that happens sooner, it just means Germany dies sooner to the Western Allies.
 

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