If Poland keeps the Kresy, is the rest of Ukraine going to remain in Russia's orbit?

Dec 2017
438
Australia
#12
There is now a tendence in Belarus and in Ukraine to call their Polish rulers Belarussians and correspondently Ukrainians, as if it can add something to the glory of Belarussians and Ukrainians. As if the fact that there nations upheld their language, their faith, their culture in centuries, in spite of Polish pressure. Their nobles betrayed their people, changed language, religion and culture and became Poles. They wanted the people to join them, they could insist very much, but in vain.
Those Poles living in Belarus accepted Polish identity. It was not uncommon for two siblings having different ethnic identities. To these days Poles of eastern Lithuania speak Belarusian natively and ethnographically Belarusian. The same with many Lithuanians. Belarusian or Ukrainian were their rulers unlike filthy communists who came murdering thousands of people.
 
Jun 2016
1,758
Russia
#13
Those Poles living in Belarus accepted Polish identity. It was not uncommon for two siblings having different ethnic identities. To these days Poles of eastern Lithuania speak Belarusian natively and ethnographically Belarusian. The same with many Lithuanians. Belarusian or Ukrainian were their rulers unlike filthy communists who came murdering thousands of people.
You can't be more wrong. The Poles that live in Belarus are Belarussian nobles that betrayed own people to remain nobles. The fact that after centuries of Polish pressure Belarussians still speak Belarussian, are othodox Christians and have their Belarussian, not Polish culture is the proof how much they hated Poles and own nobles that became Poles. If Poles speak not Polish but Belarussian natively they are not Poles but Belarussians what ever they and you are saying. And if we speak about Lithuania and Belarus, there are not doubts who came to Belarus murdering "thousands of people". Millions to be sure. Lithuanian and Ukrainian Nazi killed in Belarus millions, each fourth Belarussian was killed by Nazi. In Lithuania Lithuanian Nazi couldn't kill millions, but more than two hundred thousands of people they evidently killed. In many cases Lithuanian Nazi welcomed entering Germans with signs, that their village is free of Jews.
 
Dec 2017
438
Australia
#14
Unlikely Poland would have kept Kresy. Anti-Polish sentiments were strong in western Ukraine, western Belarus, eastern Lithuania. Polish authorities made a mistake deciding to build unitary state rather than a federation recognising other ethnicities and the
You can't be more wrong. The Poles that live in Belarus are Belarussian nobles that betrayed own people to remain nobles. The fact that after centuries of Polish pressure Belarussians still speak Belarussian, are othodox Christians and have their Belarussian, not Polish culture is the proof how much they hated Poles and own nobles that became Poles. If Poles speak not Polish but Belarussian natively they are not Poles but Belarussians what ever they and you are saying. And if we speak about Lithuania and Belarus, there are not doubts who came to Belarus murdering "thousands of people". Millions to be sure. Lithuanian and Ukrainian Nazi killed in Belarus millions, each fourth Belarussian was killed by Nazi. In Lithuania Lithuanian Nazi couldn't kill millions, but more than two hundred thousands of people they evidently killed. In many cases Lithuanian Nazi welcomed entering Germans with signs, that their village is free of Jews.
Commie! You don't even know how to spell Belarusian . Belarus-ian (people of Belarus) as in Ital-ian, Austr-ian etc. It's pronounced Belarus-ian in English too. Let alone speaking about historic relations between Ukrainians and Poles & Belarusians and Poles. Ordinary folks survived through war saying it was safer when Germans were around unlike Red Army that destroyed cities and in Belarus and Ukraine. Germans were not responsible for destruction as Red army were retreating in 1941 and Germans were leaving cities intact. Jews suffered the most. But Germans regret for what happened unlike filthy commies denying their crimes.

PS Go and watch Kisilyov & Solovyov.
 
Last edited:
Jun 2016
1,758
Russia
#15
Unlikely Poland would have kept Kresy. Anti-Polish sentiments were strong in western Ukraine, western Belarus, eastern Lithuania. Polish authorities made a mistake deciding to build unitary state rather than a federation recognising other ethnicities and the
Wrong! In western Ukraine , Belarus and Lithuania, from which Poland robbed Vilnius anti-Polish sentiments were VERY strong. In other parts these "sentiments" were strong enough too. Everybody remembered Polish atrocities.

Ordinary folks survived through war saying it was safer when Germans were around unlike Red Army that destroyed cities and in Belarus and Ukraine.
Knowing "the ordinary" Ukrainians that live(d) in Australia, I am not surprized about your ignorance. These "ordinary" Ukrainians that moved to Australia are/were responsible for each fourth Belarussian. The other sort of Ukrainians remained at home and adored "filthy communists" and not you filty Nazi. Don't say that you regret. Conscience is unknown word for Nazi.
G
 
Nov 2015
1,518
Kyiv
#16
@Dir: Did you intend to write something in that post? After all, you only copied and pasted what Iwan wrote without writing anything new.
- of course.

In fact, the conditional division of Ukraine into pro-Russian and anti-Russian parts is a matter of late time.

E.g. most of the 19th century Kharkiv was much more pro-Ukrainian city than Kiev. And the census of 1887 shows that even by language the entire Left Bank Ukraine was dominant Ukrainian - including the Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Moreover - in the late 1990s I heard the speeches of former members of the OUN in the House of the Writer at Bankova in Kiev. We had an office there near the assembly hall, and sometimes I went to that hall to listen to the speech of different people.

So - these OUN people were in the so-called marching columns that moved after the front line to the east in 1941 and tried to create a Ukrainian administration where the Germans had not managed to organize anything yet. And all of them said that local people met them in those eastern regions very affably and actively helped them

I can add that the largest anti-Russian anti-Bolshevik uprisings of the 1919-1920 were in those parts of Ukraine - Makhno in the Donetsk steppes and Grigoriev - in the south.

My grandfather lived in the south of Ukraine, next to the Crimea. And all the villages there were talking in Ukrainian.

This after the war, the Moscow authorities tried to russify the population in those territory, and in the Donbass they made it quite successfully. Further - after 1991 - the pro-Russian mood was warmed up by the local elite. But not because it wanted to annex that lands to Russia - God forbid! - but for pressure on Kiev and getting special privileges for Donbass.

By the way, where is the Donetsk elite now? It moved to Ukraine, to the part where there is no Russian occupation.

I am now a moderator at the Donetsk forum in the historical section. This is the forum where I was kicked out in 2013 and banned for my pro-Ukrainian messages. Now pro-Ukrainian moods in the east of Ukraine are much stronger than before 2014. The arrival of the Russian world was not liked by many people there - it brought war and devastation.

Therefore, I can not say how the scenario would develop according to the version. And I already said that in 1939 many residents of Western Ukraine were spilling the arrival of Russians as a savors from Polish oppression. And in 5 years they were shot to Russians from each bush. For nothing heals from love for Russia better than a life in its realities

I was convinced of this on my own experience, having lived in Russia for 5 years. I'm not sure I've commented on your line in the proper way. And I will be happy to answer any clarifying questions.
 

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