If Staline attacked....

Sep 2012
3,706
Bulgaria
#2
Revolutionaries often adopted aliases to disguise their true identities because they feared their families would be persecuted. So Jughashvili used Stalin, which means 'man of steel' / 'made of steel'. English Stalin is direct transliteration from Russian Cyrillic, i didnt know the French Staline, new info, thanks.
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,643
Dispargum
#3
Early in your time window, before Hitler was seen as a threat, UK and France may have sympathized or even allied with Germany against Communist expansion.

Later in your window, after Hitler came to be seen as a threat, UK and France may have decided it was best to let their two enemies destroy each other. Since Germany and the Soviet Union did not share a border, I'm curious how Stalin could have reached Hitler. If Soviet armies marched across Poland, western sympathies for Poland may have brought the UK and France into alliance with Germany, not to help Germany but to rescue Poland.
 
Nov 2015
1,723
Kyiv
#4
Hello dear specialists.What would have been the attitudes of UK and France if Staline attacked Hitler during the period 1933-1937 ?
The Russians did not have a common border with Germany at that time. It would appear only after the seizure by Russia some countries or part of their territory in 1939-1940 (Poland and Lithuania). Therefore, in order to attack Germany the Russians in that period would have had to start intervention in these countries first. And England and France would hardly have liked it.

There was another option. Russians could try to get permission from the governments of Poland, Lithuania or Czechoslovakia to bring Russian troops into these countries for they could move to the German border.

But the governments of Czechoslovakia (1938) and Poland (1939) did not agree to this. And they were not mistaken. The story of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia in 1940 showed that after the Russian troops entered them "for protection against German aggression", all three countries were then annexed by the Soviet Union. And the Russian Bolshevik terror began there.

The same plans for annexation existed in Russia for Finland. And shortly before the invasion of this country in the fall of 1939, Moscow urgently formed the Karelian-Finnish SSR from the Karelian Autonomous Republic within the RSFSR. Finland was supposed to join Karelian-Finnish SSR if the Winter War turned out to be more successful for the Russians. But the war did not go according to plan, and after a while the Karelo-Finnish SSR was again turned into Russian autonomy.

Russian troops could not capture all of Finland, and Russia annexed only the territory of the Finnish Karelian Isthmus. It still remains part of Russia at the moment.
 
Likes: Corbulo
Oct 2010
398
Glasgow
#5
The Russians did not have a common border with Germany at that time. It would appear only after the seizure by Russia some countries or part of their territory in 1939-1940 (Poland and Lithuania). Therefore, in order to attack Germany the Russians in that period would have had to start intervention in these countries first. And England and France would hardly have liked it.

There was another option. Russians could try to get permission from the governments of Poland, Lithuania or Czechoslovakia to bring Russian troops into these countries for they could move to the German border.

But the governments of Czechoslovakia (1938) and Poland (1939) did not agree to this. And they were not mistaken. The story of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia in 1940 showed that after the Russian troops entered them "for protection against German aggression", all three countries were then annexed by the Soviet Union. And the Russian Bolshevik terror began there.

The same plans for annexation existed in Russia for Finland. And shortly before the invasion of this country in the fall of 1939, Moscow urgently formed the Karelian-Finnish SSR from the Karelian Autonomous Republic within the RSFSR. Finland was supposed to join Karelian-Finnish SSR if the Winter War turned out to be more successful for the Russians. But the war did not go according to plan, and after a while the Karelo-Finnish SSR was again turned into Russian autonomy.

Russian troops could not capture all of Finland, and Russia annexed only the territory of the Finnish Karelian Isthmus. It still remains part of Russia at the moment.
I totally agree it would be an unlikely scenario. At that time as you say the USSR would first either have seek to permission from Poland and possibly Czechosovakia in order to directly attack Germany. The likelihood that either of these two countries would in any way be open to this would be unthinkable especially considering the Polish-Soviet war of the early 1920's was still very fresh in the memory. Had the USSR attempted to force their hand then it is very likely that Poland would have resisted vigorously any Soviet attempt to penetrate their borders and this would probably have brought about a rather strange but necessary ad-hoc alliance between Germany, Poland possibly Czechoslovaka being joined by the other "Little Entente" powers such as Yugosalvia and perhaps even Austria which was not annexed by Germany until 1938 and even Fascist Italy and Hungary also, in a sort of Anti-communist alliance. Of course all these countries distrusted each other for various reasons some territorial other idealogical however emergencies sometimes make strange bedfellows.

As for Britain and France this scenario had been one that had been envisioned in the 1920's and the potential spread of Soviet Communism to the west either passively or aggressively was one of the reasons why they had allowed Germany to remilitarise as a bulwark against this. However the Soviet threat to Eastern and Central Europe did not seem as likely in the mid to late 1930's as all the countries directly involved were far stabler and more powerful than they had been ten years prior. Had the USSR openly attempted to attack Germany via Poland or the Baltic States then both Britain and France would have most certainly supplied materiel, air and Naval support and in the case of France perhaps direct and active military aid had the situation deemed it vital.

In reality by the mid to late 1930's the Soviets would never have even considered such a move as they had no direct border with Germany and any aggressive move would inevitably have brought about an ad-hoc alliance between the major and minor powers of Eastern and Central Europe but also the indirect or direct involvment of Britain and France and even Italy. We all know that the Soviets had these ambitions but the chess pieces were not in place at this time to make such a move. We have to remember that until at least the German occupation of the Rump of what is now the Czech Republic in early 1939 many both in Britain and France thought that they could work alongside the New Germany for mutual benefit.
 
Likes: Dir

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